The right wing gay sex scandals

[sparkindarkness]

A la Larry Craig, Ted Haggard et al (and there is a lot of all)

I’ve heard many people scream (justly) about these and especially about the hypocrisy about these homophobes who seek their jollies with man on man sex after trying to force the rest of us into the closet (or worse). I think, though, that I have a different view from many.

The point is less about hypocrisy (though that IS a point, and anyone speaking out about sexual morality who goes and has sleazy sex in public toilets is a hypocrite - no matter how guilty they feel afterwards) and even less about the damage these men have done.

The point is that these men - all of them, not just Larry Craig - are VICTIMS.

Homophobia destroys lives. It's as simple as that.

Sometimes it's obvious, as in the tragic and painful case of Matthew Shephard. As in the innumerable homosexuals who take their own lives because they cannot stand living with themselves any longer.

But they are not the only lives ruined. Larry Craig, Ted Haggard et al are more examples of lives destroyed by homophobia. Brought up immersed in cultural and societal self-hate these men never had a chance. They were given no chance to truly live as who and what they are. They were forced into a life of repression, unfullfillment (assuming that is a word) and general misery where these kind of sordid sexcapades are the best release they can find. Imagine that - the most honest expression of your sexuality you have open to yourself is anonymous sex in a toilet. That is a life ruined - I'd say a life ruined just as much as the kid who slits his wrists because he thinks he is perverted and evil and even as much as the man or woman violently and murderously assaulted by homophobes in the street.

These men are victims. They are broken, scarred, wounded victims. They go on to try and victimise others - victimise their brother and sister homosexuals - but they are still victims who have suffered immeasurably because of virulent homophobia that has scarred them and remains a blight on our cultures.

These men do NOT deserve our hate, not even our anger and our condemnation. They deserve our heartfelt pity - pity for their ruined lives and what could have been.

If we do feel hate and anger arising from this sorry affair that direct it appropriately - direct it against the vast forces that every day tell us from childhood that being gay is wrong, that being gay is evil, that we are filthy, corrupted, perverted, broken, valueless and sick. This is what we should oppose, not so people think nice things about us, not because people need to accept us, but to save the future Larry Craigs from an equally miserable and sad existence.

Gay people grow up with this sickening, self-loathing propaganda that hits us almost from the cradle. It is unrelenting in the media, in the casual comments of everyone around us, in literature, in dominant religions - everywhere it is hammered home that gays are inferior, that we are unworthy, broken, filthy, damaged, laughable, ridiculous, perverted, sick, evil - from the very cradle this message is driven home. And the fact that I, or any homosexual, have managed to escape this speaks more for luck than anything else. There but for the grace of the gods go I. I could have very easily been a Larry Craig and I thank all the gods, my parents, my friends and general good fortune that I am not.

So to Larry Craig and all the rest of these hypocrites I say this - I am sorry. I am truly and deeply sorry that life has screwed you over this badly. I am sorry that you were hurt so badly. I am sorry that you were so twisted and so warped by what must have been an agonising adolescence. I cannot imagine the pain you suffered and likely continue to suffer to this day and I grieve that you had to suffer one single minute of it and I vow that I will do everything in my power to ensure that future generations will not have to suffer as you did.

Comments

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Heh. You're a better person than I am.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Heee, thanks. I just feel so sorry for these poor guys (while maintaining a personal wish to give them a good slapping)

[logophilos.livejournal.com]

Hear hear. I was thinking about this myself - Schadenfreude is not the appropriate reaction here. We shouldn't have a society where anyone should have to hide the true nature in this way, because no one wakes up and decides to be sexually aroused by something. We have no control over that side of ourselves - only on what we do with it. Even if people have the kinds of desires which lead to harm, like sadism or paedophilia, why should they not be able to admit that and ask for help, without it ruining their lives?

When it's something as harmless and ordinary as desiring consenting adults of the same sex, then it should come down to whether the person is actively trying to hurt anyone (say, a spouse) - not what plumbing they have.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Aye, the blame for this lies in society and our paranoid horror at expressions of sexuality beyond missionary heterosexuality. This is something completely beyond conscious control - you can't condemn someone for that

There have actually been cases of paedophiles seeking help and finding none - even the police turned them away because they hadn't committed any crime... yet.

Aye, i'm always confused by people who say gay marriage will ruin marriage or change society or acceptance of homosexuality redefines relationships. WHY? Everything is exactly the same! There is one tiny difference - the gender of the parties

(icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

I'm poking around, reading the comments and I come on this, it really strikes a bone here. What people fail to realize is that in the Ancient Roman and Greek times this kind of behavior was NOT a bad thing, it was purely a natural thing that people openly talked about and lived without societal crap. What happened bnetween then and now and why we are not allowed to live normally anymore, I have no clue, but I know for a fact that more people are of "altered" feelings than will say. Society has Screwed Everyone out of a bit of happiness by being this way, but no one will accept the blame for it, ya know what I mean? It's always this group or that one, but not Ever is it "My Fault" or "Your Fault", ya know? Why can't people just damned well be more hoinest, then they might learn that we are not all that different, we are still people who love, live, breath, have dreams, JUST like them! *gah!* (oh, um, Bi here, justa letya know. Still "not normal")

Re: (icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[gnarlycranium.livejournal.com]

Without societal crap? ..Errrm.

The Greeks and Romans pretty much thought that women were unclean creatures without souls whose only real purpose was reproduction, and that true, pure love could only exist between a man and a boy. Wouldn't exactly call that 'living normally'.

What happened? Christianity, basically.

Re: (icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

I Know what happened and I know that we were considered unclean as women, but it's the way that the world thinks about ANYONE who is different that I was getting at. Make sense now? Spark and I go back long long times and he understands the way I think better than most would, that's why I commented the way I did. ;)

Re: (icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Well, without homosexual society crap - though they had their share of that as well to a degree, but nothing like what we see today. I think the only way to have society free from issues is to kill everyone in it

Well of course! You'll get cooties :P

Agreed, patriarchal christianity to be precise. For some reason sex, in its various guises, has always been Christianity's (and its 2 friends and fellows) top bugaboo

Re: (icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[jerril]

Judaism's pretty darn good on the sex issue compared to the other two, so be careful about lumping it in. Strict about "in a marriage", but even Orthodox Judaism is pretty clear that making the whoopie is supposed to be one of the PERKS of marriage, not a chore and not a sin.

Big Demerit Points for "in a marriage between a man and a woman", minor demerit points for "in a marriage", bonus points for the "Go forth and boink, except on Saturday when you're not even supposed to light candles you naughty boy" type of rules.

Re: (icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

It's BETTER than the other 2 - but I would say that's because it has a liberalised a lot more than the other 2 in the past few years/decades

Re: (icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

The greeks and romans had societal crap, but you're right they didn't have THIS societal crap

As to what happened between here and now? I have to go with Gnarly and say Christianity. Patriarchal religions with a shed load of sexual prohibitions (and some peace stuff which could be shoved to one side and ignored) and more sexual issues than a Jerry Springer show.

I remember you were bi, yes :). I just wished all of humanity would just look at each other and say "your life, enjoy it!" But no, everything has to be OTHER and OTHER always has to be so THREATENING and OTHER always has to be SHAMEFUL and OTHER always has to be stopped.

Re: (icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

*picks up shovel and bucket*

Yea, if we Could get past the CS&G it would be nice, wouldn't it? I just wish that the kids are more aware than I was raised to be, though it didn't seem to stick. heh.

T'would be wonderful if people saw themselves Before they saw others and learned that our differences are what makes this world so beautiful, No? ;)

Re: (icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

If we want pattern in life we need diverse threads. But people are so absolutist - it has to be their way or no way, they have to be right, other people can't ALSO be right.

Re: (icon should say Human Stupidity, K?)

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

Sad but true, for the most part. I still think I want to create a utopian society, but hell, what would Utopia be? *think think*

Never mind, can't think what it would be like to have everyone get along, since I can't even with my own sybs. *shakes head and laughs*

[gnarlycranium.livejournal.com]

Everything is NOT exactly the same, not to those weirdos.

These are people who believe a marriage has two roles-- master and suboordinate, clearly mandated by gender. Including, say, two men means that a man has been placed in a role that's degrading and wrong. We can't go letting people get radical ideas, like... equality in relationships, I mean good heavens where might THAT lead?!

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

That's the sad thing. I mean,. what's different? What are they so hung up about? The type of sex we had? Would they be fine if we confined it to certain sex acts that heterosexuals could also participate in? Or were virginal? The fact we both have dicks? I mean, seriously, what is the difference? I just don't get what the major difference is here. 2 people. Love each other. Set up house together. In the scope of all that the number of penises or vaginas in the equation is somewhat irrelevent, surely?

That's what gets me. I just DO NOT understand not just why they hate us and are so up tight about it, but why they even care at all


That master/dominant and submissive worries me - because it's not (or shouldn't be) true anymore. It's a relic - and the mindset is not just neanderthal, it's offensively revolting. But it fits, doesn't it? It fits with the anti-choice movement and the anti-feminism and the anti-contraception and the anti-sex education

*pokes nose in once more, then runs*

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

Most hetrosexual males ARE Neanderthals at the core, hun. Been married enough times to be openly honest about that one. Would you believe that one of my ex's actually said he would rather be replaced by another man than a woman because that would at least be a fair fight? *laughs* What's to fight about? He didn't love me anymore, end of story. I would have been happy with anyone as long as I was loved in return, right? yup. Not male or female, just love for all that it's worth. *hug* *run*

Re: *pokes nose in once more, then runs*

[jerril]

"because that would at least be a fair fight"? What, he admitted he'd be immensely outclassed by the woman? *grins, ducks, runs*

Re: *pokes nose in once more, then runs*

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

One could only wish. His attitude was that if he couldn't throw a punch, it wasn't fair. Of course that wasn't includuing the ones he threw at me, I was property and could be treated as he saw fit, right or not. :/

Re: *pokes nose in once more, then runs*

[jerril]

Eugh. If I have any kind of psychic powers, he should be getting a telekinetic kick in the nuts right about now.

Glad you're shut of him. It sounds like he'd be outclassed by a sea slug.

Re: *pokes nose in once more, then runs*

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

Thanks, but I think you should save the energy. From what I've heard, he's passed on to his just rewards by now. ;)
All I can say is, let the Goddess have at him, She'll show him who Not to mess with, eh? *laughs*

Re: *pokes nose in once more, then runs*

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I say again, the man pollutes the air he breathes and offends the earth when he steps on it.

Mayu he never darken your doorway again

Re: *pokes nose in once more, then runs*

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

The only thing I can think of is that he can no longer count the lucky ones if my info is right. He's not even graced with daisies pushing up on him. ;)

Re: *pokes nose in once more, then runs*

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

*hugs* your ex was a monster who deserves all the bad will we can foist on him.

Love is what matters - not a battle, not a fight (how insane was he?!) but love.

Re: *pokes nose in once more, then runs*

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

Insane? Him, insane? Aw, come on now, you mean my NOT fighting back was a good thing? *laughs* Don't believe that, I tried to hit him with a baseball bat once, nearly got my arm ripped off. But if I'm lucky, the info is true and he's long since dead now. If not, I'm not worried too much, he's cross country and when I get back home, my BB is there for me. Strange how it works that the two odd ends of the sybling units are teh only ones that know How to get on, isn't it? ;)

[gnarlycranium.livejournal.com]

What's different?

Umm... somebody's (assumed to be) taking it up the ass. And liking it. I think that's the main thing. And with lesbians, what was it Jay said... right "Women already have a monopoly on the vaginas, they shouldn't be greedy!" Also lesbians commit the horrible blasphemy of daring to live without the need of a man around to club the sabertooth tigers.

A big, fat, giant, HUGE segment of the population is still living under these neanderthal sorts of notions-- I mean, that hideous 'Surrendered Wife' book was all over tv, a bestseller. Huge portions of the population are raising their kids with notions that they should be beating their infant children. It's the underpinnings of western society as we know it. Particularly the property notion someone just mentioned. Do you realize that over here when our Declaration of Independence was written, the first version said "Life, liberty, and property." instead of "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."? THAT right there is the line, the difference between us and them.

Another thing about the US-- a lot of the people that came here for much-vaunted religious freedom tended to be cultish WACKOS.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

Matthew. Matthew Shepard. Not Michael.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, thanks. I know a Michael Shephard in RL so whenever I write "matthew" it looks wrong

[lilisonna.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying what I've been thinking. It's sad. The whole sordid mess is just pitiful. That is it sad and awful doesn't excuse Craig or Haggard or anyone from their actions, but it does at least let me dredge up some understanding for them.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I don't excuse them, because there's a level when they should have realised their own hypocrisy, but the full blame I dump very heavily on a society that tries to screw us all over this badly.

[ladydyani.livejournal.com]

Using that comparison, you can liken it to people that were abused as children abusing their children in turn. But it is possible to break free of that cycle. I don't use a wooden spoon or a belt to beat my children, despite that happening to me when I was younger.

Using your example, I can understand the men a bit better, but I still can't forgive.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

It's true, the cycle can be broken, they can realise what they grew up with was wrong. But even when they reached adulthood, society was still telling them that their hatred and self-loathing was right, at no time really will they have known an overwhelming consensus that their insane ideas ARE wrong.

Still, it doesn't excuse them entirely, not at all. But I blame the forces that warped them more than they themselves

[lilisonna.livejournal.com]

I don't think that they are blameless. We all have to take responsibility for our actions, and I don't think there's any reason to not hold people accountable even while understanding the circumstances that shaped those decisions.

This understanding -- at least for me -- is less about a particular individual and more about actively trying to work against the forces that brought about that individual's very bad decisions.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Aye, the individual, on the whole, doesn't matter so much. Larry Craig could be gay, straight, bi, screwing everything in sight or dead for all I care

but he is a victim, even if not a blameless one (and he isn't blameless) and the issue should be what forced him tot his in the first place.

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

You are more forgiving than I am, but you are right.

I can't get past my anger and disgust. I may be straight, but I can't help railing against people who would deny basic human rights to others because of sexual orientation.

And yet, they are a result of the same culture that made me. My parents raised me to judge people on character, not popularity or acceptability by the majority. My own background (thank you, school) taught me the price of bullying and discrimination for reasons that shouldn't matter.

Our society is wrong to deny rights to that GLBT population. And yes, I know that it comes from the world we live in. There are individuals who fight to keep this discrimination alive. Some of those people are gay, and unable to face that.

I just can't convince myself that inability to face one's own homosexuality excuses the hatred and fear, and the harm that comes from that hatred and fear.

You are right. But I am too small and angry to easily accept that.

More than anything else, the bullshit needs to stop. Now.

If I could assign a LiveJournal mood to this comment, it would be conflicted.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

It is hard. I look at these poeople and I am angry with them. Sure they have issues but they're trying to force those issues on everyone else. They're trying to scar and twist everyone to match their own deabsed selves. I am angry because other gays have pulled themselves out of worse conditions and overcome worse indoctrination.

But at the same time I'm kind of worried that it could have been me. I mean, if my family had brought me up thinking homosexuality was the great evil, if my church had hammered home that deity hates me - well, I know how damaging just the low level societal hostility was. On that scale? I don't know - could that have been me?


Above all, the bullshit dodes need to stop. The societal oppression the habitual denigration of homosexuals has to STOP. Or this will keep happening.

[indyellen.livejournal.com]

Dude, I couldn't have said it better. Thanks for posting.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I've felt this way since haggard, I can't help but pity them, I really can't

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

Sweet, sneak over to peek at my friend sinboy. I'd link it but I still can't figure out the linkie thingie. He's got a ton of stuff on all this, news clips et etc. You might find a "local" (to me that is) friend that could hand you more of the real mess over here, he's got several connections about N.Y. city and gets loads of info.

Personal opinion on all this: The jackass should just bite his tonge and get a reality check. Anyone who has to "reach down" to move his foot in a restroom is either disabled and Needs to, or is a creep trying to hide. L.C. is the latter in flaming neon undies. ;)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I shall go and have a nosy when my life isn't doing 10 things at once. It has a nasty habit of doing this.

To be honest, all the gory details are not the issue to me so much as the whole genre of people themselves - all these homosexuals who are so desperately closeted that they resort to this to have any release at all and in their self-loathing they lash out at the rest of us

Yeah, his excuses were almost laughable :)

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

Ah, you liked the flaming neon undies comment, eh? ;)
Sinboy is just a sweet fella that has so much going on and so much to say that I thought you might enjoy him. He's quite the intellegent one, really. Makes me wonder sometimes about how much of my own education is still living up there (points at head), ya know?

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Always :)

I must go poke him then :).

the education's there I'm sure :) It's just not always playing

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

Playing? Playing? Ooooohhh! I wanna play some. *laughs*
*sigh*
No available, shucks. :/

[amynnah.livejournal.com]

Good people are good people... whomever they love shouldn't color anyone's opinion. :(

It's just... I'm not okay with people thinking it's all right to degrade others. In WoW alone, I've actually created a macro saying, "Since when does sexual orientation have anything to do with the situation?" I got tired of typing it out whenever "gay" is used interchangeably with, "This sucks." ::sighs:: I was brought up to be respectful to everyone... my brother, my sister, my neighbors, random people in the store... and I never fail to get boggled when people throw stupid insults around, or oppress people just because they happen to love someone of the same gender. It's so disrespectful, and sad.

Anyway... o Spark... I'm sorry, I must away, for my work day is finished. You are a much better person than I am. Lately, I've been wanting to throw things, scream, cry, wave a sword in the air, and stomp around like a t-rex with all the crap going on. I think I need a break from media these days. :(

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

It shouldn;t. But it does and it makes NOOOOO freaking sense.

Oh that is my utter pet hate. People actually do it in my own guild (though not to my face any more because they get the freezing look). I made pointed commenst more than once and I think some RL friends in the guild spread the word, so now and then you'll hear "GAY!... ... ... err... sorry Sparky." Which is an improvement.

It#'s sad because most of these people aren't actively homophobic and don't realise what a horrendous insult they are throwing around by using the word gay in that context

[jerril]

I'm straight, and it makes my teeth curl whenever I hear it. I call people on it each time I hear it, too (well, real people... the troglodytes in general chat I've given up on). I tried withering looks but apparently my glasses diffuse them or something, so I just skipped to announcing "Don't say that, it's rude, it sounds moronic, and it makes my teeth curl."

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

What gets me is that people don't seem to see the insult in it

I make sure anyone around me knows how I feel about it - if they persist... well, there's someone who has no respect for me and will drop off my good mood list verrrrry quickly

[gnarlycranium.livejournal.com]

I will admit I used it a few days ago in reaction to a photo of a guy in silly leather boots. There's some situations where no more useful terms come to mind-- it feels strange when that happens, because ordinarily it's not in that category of my vocabulary at all.