Ah, an old memory that still causes painful flashbacks

[sparkindarkness]

A case from a few months back that comes to mind because the client in question has finally gone home.

A colleague in the business team calls me and asks me to hurry and help one of her clients who is having problems with the police at an airport and is insisting on getting him to help (he called me to come with because he isn’t a criminal lawyer or an immigration lawyer and thinks he’s going to be out of his depth – yes, the guy does pay well). Apparently this guy wants a “lawyer he’s paid for.” Somewhat bemused, I make the long haul to the airport and track down our erstwhile client (hereby known as EC).



EC is an American gentleman. He seems to be having some cultural difficulties adapting to the UK. Most people understand that things change and try to learn. Others, it seems, simply explode and crank up the volume.

It seems he has arrived and been detained because he has some ammunition in his suitcase – just a few loose bullets at the bottom of his case (how he got on a plane with them bemuses me surely security would have stopped him getting on a plane with ammunition?) Ok, stuff like this apparently happens a lot (or so say the airport security folks). People carry scraps of things that are illegal in this country but legal in their country of origin. If they’re clearly not smuggling, security’s normally pretty willing to confiscate and let you go on your way after informing you that it’s naughty and you’re not to do it here (especially on flights from Amsterdam).

That would probably have happened in this case and I wouldn’t have had to waste my time dragging myself to see EC if it weren’t for the fact that EC was one giant balloon of righteous indignation. Most of this included screeching his constitutional rights (I kid you not. He tried to demand his second amendment rights. I think I lost several minutes just frozen in shock) to everyone who would listen (even when we got him into a private room to discuss things there was little point as I’m sure his every bellow could be heard 3 counties over). My colleague is giving me the “oh my god, I am SO sorry I have inflicted him on you, please don’t kill me for this” look while I am giving him the “death is too good for you” look. The Hounds, alas, are stuck in quarantine.

There then follows a painful period of informing him that, no, the American constitution doesn’t actually apply in the UK. No, really, it doesn’t. Shocking isn’t it? No, we have different gun laws over here. You do not have the right to carry guns or any other kind of weapon (except haddock when truly exasperated) – and I personally am insanely glad that EC isn’t allowed to get his sweaty hands on any kind of weapon while sharing the same country as my good self. No, we don’t actually WANT to change the laws. He bitched about how it should be in the British constitution (heh, because we don’t actually have a written Constitution. One of only 2 countries in the whole world that don’t, I think – yes, that went down well). Then I told him he could face up to 5 years in prison just for carrying those bullets in the UK (which resulted in more towering rage and threats ranging from the unspecified to America apparently invading should we even ‘dare’ to arrest him).

In the end he was convinced to relinquish his bullets since my colleague managed to imply that EC couldn’t afford to replace them, so he indignantly gave them up to prove he could (*sigh*). Airport security let him go because they knew I’d told him the full and fierce consequences of his actions (and as one of them quipped, “he has to pay 2 lawyers’ bills now, that’s punishment enough” ha ha, oh the wit, it slays me) and he’d given up the bullets (if he hadn’t been such a prat and not pitched a fit and demanded his lawyers be present when they took the bullets in the first place they would have let him go straight away!)

This whole thing took us NEARLY AN HOUR of solid arguing. I think he ran down as much because he was losing his voice as because he saw reason.

I’d set the Hounds on him, but I think he’d shoot them. Besides, I think he was rabid. I’ll set them on my colleague instead. Crunchy business lawyer.

Comments

[lalajia.livejournal.com]

Why didn't they arrest him? Oh please for the sake of all that's sane, why not?!

Couldn't they have done him for terrorist offences when he threatened to invade the UK?

I wouldn't mind my taxpayers money paying to support locking the likes of him up!!

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

What, we don't want him to spend any more time in this country than is strictly necessary! Let the americans have him back.

Technically they could have, but they won't because most judges can recognise terminal stupidity.

Actually, neither would I... but I'd have MUCH rather watched him squawk as he was forced back on a plane across the Atlantic...

[kitsuken.livejournal.com]

You know, they *do* have a point. He now has to pay fees for two lawyiers and gets absolutely nothing in return (at least, as far as he's concerned), as opposed to just relinquishing the bullets and walking on just that little bit better off. I doubt he's likely to be a reoffender after that, especially when he realises he's paying in Sterling, not in Dollars ;P

But yeah, what a dumbass. His consitutional rights? Outside the US? Why the hell did he think they would apply? Human rights laws, yes, but I don't think international human rights include gun ownership (and to be honest I don't know why the American constitution still does) And no, the majority *don't* want to change the gun laws, except maybe to make it *more* difficult for criminals to obtain them. I doubt he reacted well to that though, probably thought we were a whole country of Liberals or something (oh the horror!)

*tries not to burst out laughing at America invading because he was arrested for *gasp* breaking the law*

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, he paid for an hour's work and 4 hour's travel for 2 lawyers. Extra for short notice. That was NOT cheap. He paid alright :)


But yeah, what a dumbass. His consitutional rights? Outside the US? Why the hell did he think they would apply?

It's a rather arrogant form of entitlement - what goes at home goes everywhere.

Human rights laws, yes, but I don't think international human rights include gun ownership

Nope, we're all rather bemused that anyone would consider the right to own an M16 to be a human right. I don't get it, you don't get it - I think it's an American thing. (I've heard one say it was to protect themselves if the government became more oppressive. My answer: a) HOW MUCH MORE OPPRESSIVE DOES IT HAVE TO GET? B) If the govt wants to oppress you, they will carpet bomb you and your baretta. c) trouble is it also allows the NUTCASES to decide they've been oppressed by evil things like taxes and civil rights).

Yup, we want people LESS armed, not more. Especially after Dunblane.

By American standards we are country of commiepinkos :)


Yes, because the Navy Seals are ready to move on our shores at any time *lols*

[only-playing.livejournal.com]

I would appologize on behalf of my fellow countrymen, but thankfully even we do not claim asshats like that.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Nuh-uh you have to take him back, we're not keeping him :p

[jocelyncs.livejournal.com]

Oh...dear...GAWD.

I do apologize for my psychotic, idiot countryman! I mean, for Pete's sake, even in the UNITED STATES it's illegal to be trucking ammunition around in the airports! Hello, security? Did EC miss the thing about the dudes hijacking some planes and crashing them into buildings a few years back? It's fresh in most Americans' memory!

And the previous commentor is quite correct--human rights laws do not touch on gun ownership! (And there are those of us who think our dear ol' Second Amendment is QUITE outdated!)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Dinna worry, lunatics like this exist everywhere... he's just louder than most. He cannot be representative of America - America wouldn't function otherwise.

See, that's what I thought - surely, given recent history, even gun friendly states aren't willing to allow ammo in airports?


I will never understand the concept of the second amendment. Alright, I DO from a historical point when you were fighting a guerrilla war with the French against us, but now? Honest, we're not going to try and make you a colony again as soon as you drop the law. Really. We'd rather not have Bush and Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as countrymen.

[ephemera.livejournal.com]

gods but people are stupid sometimes.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Amen

[baranduyn.livejournal.com]

This is why some of us pretend not to be American while traveling abroad.

Sigh.

Of course people like EC are every bit as belligerent and me-me-me centric when they're here. It's a damn shame they couldn't find a reason to put him in prison for awhile; would've done him some good.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Alas, every country has the utter EBs. Some are just louder.


Nope, we much prefer to send them back :)

[pbrim.livejournal.com]

This doofus needs to be slapped down hard. As an American, a Texan, and the wife of a Lifetime member of the NRA, let me try to put this in terms he can understand, although not the way I see world. (After all, there are reasons why I am divorcing my husband and considering doing the same to my country.)

He has forgotten one of the basic rules of gun ownership, in fact one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment -- in any immediate physical situation, the person with all the guns gets to make all the rules. (The relationship here with the 2nd Amendment is the desire to not have the government as the "one with all the guns".)

Here he has no gun and presumably airport security either does or has access to those who do. In this situation, as a practical matter, you are polite, courteous and accede to trivial demands with dispatch. This is not an armed gang of rapists demanding he turn over his wife and daughter, after all. *AFTER* the incident is over, after you are no longer face to face with armed people, then if you feel your rights were violated you take every legal step possible to get redress, or consider what extra-legal steps you might want to take. But you are always polite and co-operative to armed men when you are unarmed -- after all this is how he wants people to behave towards him when he is armed.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

CAn you divorce a country? It would be wonderfully dramatic and the settlement must be pretty huge

Hence the forming of MILITIAs to repel oppressive government. I can see that as a reason (though i do not agree).

That is very sensible - admittedly not pleasant (the idea that weaponry wins respect) but certainly practical.

Of course then he would have spent MORE time with us poor lawyers

[ladydyani.livejournal.com]

*looks around shiftily*

I'm not American. Really. Whoops.

I mean, I'm not American, eh!

Seriously, did he really believe that the US constitution applied to him no matter where he was? That's so... disenchanting. That's the best word I can come up with at the moment.

[ladydyani.livejournal.com]

Oh, and you should post this in mock_the_stupid

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

He is, alas, an arrogant fool. There is no shortage of them and the law frowns on me killing them at random.

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

If I send you cookies, will you keep him? Please? We really don't want him here.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid the best i can offer is to send him to Australia instead

[sethgraham.livejournal.com]

I don't have anything against being able to carry weapons, but it takes a special kind of moron to think they could take live rounds through an airport in this day and age.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Well, from the feedback I've got apparently in America you can *shock*.

I'm just glad we stopped him when he came here - I love having no guns

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

Our constitution applies to our soil. Your soil, your rules. How hard is it not to know that?

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

You'd have thought it would be simple.

But some people have such an arrogant streak that it is unreal

[vistillia.livejournal.com]

And I am willing to bet his knowledge of our constitution and other laws starts and ends with the second amendment.

I wouldn't perform my own brain surgery, why the hell do idiots think they can be the equal of someone who's studied the law for many years?

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Don't you just bet? I really can't picture him every fighting for the 14th And I wish he would exercise the 5th.


Because they are SPESHUL

[cosmorific.livejournal.com]

Hello! Read (and sporfled at) your posts on customers_suck, found my way to your journal from there. Added you to my flist, if that's okay.

Keep on hounding and haddocking!

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

That's Ok, and thank you.

And the crusade will continue!

[klgaffney.livejournal.com]

oh...just. for the love of....*HEADDESK*

i'm rather fond of my country, y'know? i just despise most of the shit-tossing monkeys in it. you lot should have had him deported in a row boat with a hunk of moldy bread. it would've been okay if he hadn't made it back.

really.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

We swhould kill this man and have him replaced by Kami clones and Amazonian hordes. I think ti will be a great way of removing stupidity