Ok, let’s have an awkward conversation.
Mar. 22nd, 2009 03:20 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sparkindarknessI’ve poked around recently the idea that various oppressed and disadvantaged groups should stop snarling at each other and stand together more strongly as allies naturally united against oppression, injustice and hateful shit none of us should have to deal with.
And there’s one particular element of this that bugs me muchly and, since it also hits kinda close to home, I think it’s one I’m going to poke a little extra.
There’s a chance here that I’m going to go wrong here. I’ll (naturally) try not to, but I apologise in advance if I do.
That being said, I tentatively poke my toe into that nasty little cess pool we don’t like to talk about - why, in the GBLT community, are some of the G&L so damned uncomfortable with the B&T? Well, a lot of it comes down to your standard prejudice (as I’ve said 100 times before, just because you’re a member of an oppressed group doesn’t mean you are immune to being an arsehole) but I think there’s 2 other issues as well. The first - the desire for “specialness” and the way no-one likes their causes to be even slightly diluted is easy to understand and equally easy to dismiss as ridiculous and part and parcel of the whole bigotness. The second, though, I think is the bigger issue:
Bisexuals and Transgendered remind us of items of prevalent homophobia that get our backs up. By reminding us of that can lead to prejudice from gays towards Bisexuals and transexuals To elaborate from that HIGHLY inflammatory statement (it‘s getting long, so split in 2):
Bisexuals
The issues
This raises many hot button issues. Firstly, and perhaps mainly, is a sense of anger and even envy that a bisexual can paddle in the pool but get out if the water gets cold. I’ve spoken before about how I find people pretending to be gay for profit or gain offends me (a link to a comment thread where I vent: http://community.livejournal.com/thisthingwedo/6082.html?thread=167106#t167106) - and to an extent the same rough feeling can apply to bisexuals. NOT because they’re pretending but because there’s a sense that they can stop. They don’t have to do this. A bisexual man can jump out the water and say “pass me some boobies” and reintegrate with a society that has all the menfolk doing that boobie loving. And we can’t. We can’t get out the water when it’s cold or there are rapids or rabid crocodiles with bees in their mouths. In short, there’s an idea that bisexuals have a CHOICE which means a) they don’t get the same shit we do and b) if the water gets really rough, well, maybe they’ll get out?
It’s where this idea of bisexuals being gays that just can’t admit it comes from - because they can ‘play straight’ to protect themselves bisexual is seen as cowardly.
Then there’s the nasty thing that a lot of the homophobic crazies are telling us gay folks we need to change, that we should change, that we could change if we just tried hard enough! Then there’s this group of people who CAN seemingly change and that oh-so-does-not-help when we say we CAN’T
So, I think, there’s a sense of resentment, a sense that they get off easy, an idea that they’re playing almost and irritation that they give ammunition to some of the crazies
And why it’s so very very wrong
I’ve said before that while we all have similar problems (prejudice) the devil is in the details - and I think a lot of gay critics of bisexuals are seeing bisexuals through the wrong lens - and missing the details they endure that we don’t have to.
The issue of choice - well it’s bullshit. A bisexual cannot “choose” not to be bisexual any more than we can choose not to be gay. Yes, they can PRETEND to be straight far more easily than we can - but that’s a double edged sword. The closet for bisexual people can cling much more closely because they can pretend - and it’s more easy to EXPECT them to pretend. A sizeable number of sensible people in the world today accept that homosexuality is inherent - when a gay person comes out to them, well, this person is now gay and the opposite sex is not in the picture, end of. Sadly for a bisexual when they come out there’s always that element of “well, you can still be straight, right?” A bi guy can dump his boyfriend and go find a girlfriend, right? Well no, they can’t - but refusal to pretend is treated as more... well, wilful or defiant, y’know? Even if it is as reasonable as expecting one half of an interracial couple to dump their partner and find someone with the same skin tone.
If anything the bisexual’s playing both sides means they can end up with even more grief about “changing” than we do, because even relatively reasonable, not rabidly crazy folk are going to assume that a bisexual can (or even should!) play straight. The people who will accept gays because we “can’t help it” will still give the bis shit because of the wrongful impression that they CAN. And all of this is made far far worse by so very many people not talking bisexuals seriously - just because a group can hide better doesn’t mean they don’t have to put up with shit - and WE of all people should know that!
In the end, the Bisexual community is one of the closest natural allies the homosexual community has. Treating them like shit is going nowhere.
Sparky’s guide to not giving bi people shit
Don’t take our anger at the way the homophobes treat us (and their demand for ‘change’) out on the bisexuals. It’s not fair - direct our anger sensibly.
Don’t belittle a bisexual’s issues, don’t play the “I’m more tortured than you” game.
Treat their issues with respect, understand they may have DIFFERENT issues from you. Don’t act like they’re the backing group for the Big Gay Angst - they need their issues aired as well
Don’t imply bisexuality is a choice. Don’t suggest a bisexual can pretend to be straight (or gay). Don’t suggest their partners are interchangeable. Don’t suggest they can stop being bisexual.
Don’t buy into stupid stereotypes. A bisexual isn’t a gay who can’t admit it. They are capable of monogamy. They aren’t shagging everything in trousers/skirts et al.
The Bisexuals are in it with us for the long haul, they’re not going to quit early, they’re not dabblers, they’re not weekend warriors. They’re in their with us - respect them for that.
There’s my waffle. Bisexuals please feel free to weigh in with the many things I’ve got wrong (but don’t feel obliged to). And my GBLT brothers and sisters - we’ve got enough shit being thrown at us, let’s not give each other a hard time, ‘kay?
And there’s one particular element of this that bugs me muchly and, since it also hits kinda close to home, I think it’s one I’m going to poke a little extra.
There’s a chance here that I’m going to go wrong here. I’ll (naturally) try not to, but I apologise in advance if I do.
That being said, I tentatively poke my toe into that nasty little cess pool we don’t like to talk about - why, in the GBLT community, are some of the G&L so damned uncomfortable with the B&T? Well, a lot of it comes down to your standard prejudice (as I’ve said 100 times before, just because you’re a member of an oppressed group doesn’t mean you are immune to being an arsehole) but I think there’s 2 other issues as well. The first - the desire for “specialness” and the way no-one likes their causes to be even slightly diluted is easy to understand and equally easy to dismiss as ridiculous and part and parcel of the whole bigotness. The second, though, I think is the bigger issue:
Bisexuals and Transgendered remind us of items of prevalent homophobia that get our backs up. By reminding us of that can lead to prejudice from gays towards Bisexuals and transexuals To elaborate from that HIGHLY inflammatory statement (it‘s getting long, so split in 2):
Bisexuals
The issues
This raises many hot button issues. Firstly, and perhaps mainly, is a sense of anger and even envy that a bisexual can paddle in the pool but get out if the water gets cold. I’ve spoken before about how I find people pretending to be gay for profit or gain offends me (a link to a comment thread where I vent: http://community.livejournal.com/thisthingwedo/6082.html?thread=167106#t167106) - and to an extent the same rough feeling can apply to bisexuals. NOT because they’re pretending but because there’s a sense that they can stop. They don’t have to do this. A bisexual man can jump out the water and say “pass me some boobies” and reintegrate with a society that has all the menfolk doing that boobie loving. And we can’t. We can’t get out the water when it’s cold or there are rapids or rabid crocodiles with bees in their mouths. In short, there’s an idea that bisexuals have a CHOICE which means a) they don’t get the same shit we do and b) if the water gets really rough, well, maybe they’ll get out?
It’s where this idea of bisexuals being gays that just can’t admit it comes from - because they can ‘play straight’ to protect themselves bisexual is seen as cowardly.
Then there’s the nasty thing that a lot of the homophobic crazies are telling us gay folks we need to change, that we should change, that we could change if we just tried hard enough! Then there’s this group of people who CAN seemingly change and that oh-so-does-not-help when we say we CAN’T
So, I think, there’s a sense of resentment, a sense that they get off easy, an idea that they’re playing almost and irritation that they give ammunition to some of the crazies
And why it’s so very very wrong
I’ve said before that while we all have similar problems (prejudice) the devil is in the details - and I think a lot of gay critics of bisexuals are seeing bisexuals through the wrong lens - and missing the details they endure that we don’t have to.
The issue of choice - well it’s bullshit. A bisexual cannot “choose” not to be bisexual any more than we can choose not to be gay. Yes, they can PRETEND to be straight far more easily than we can - but that’s a double edged sword. The closet for bisexual people can cling much more closely because they can pretend - and it’s more easy to EXPECT them to pretend. A sizeable number of sensible people in the world today accept that homosexuality is inherent - when a gay person comes out to them, well, this person is now gay and the opposite sex is not in the picture, end of. Sadly for a bisexual when they come out there’s always that element of “well, you can still be straight, right?” A bi guy can dump his boyfriend and go find a girlfriend, right? Well no, they can’t - but refusal to pretend is treated as more... well, wilful or defiant, y’know? Even if it is as reasonable as expecting one half of an interracial couple to dump their partner and find someone with the same skin tone.
If anything the bisexual’s playing both sides means they can end up with even more grief about “changing” than we do, because even relatively reasonable, not rabidly crazy folk are going to assume that a bisexual can (or even should!) play straight. The people who will accept gays because we “can’t help it” will still give the bis shit because of the wrongful impression that they CAN. And all of this is made far far worse by so very many people not talking bisexuals seriously - just because a group can hide better doesn’t mean they don’t have to put up with shit - and WE of all people should know that!
In the end, the Bisexual community is one of the closest natural allies the homosexual community has. Treating them like shit is going nowhere.
Sparky’s guide to not giving bi people shit
Don’t take our anger at the way the homophobes treat us (and their demand for ‘change’) out on the bisexuals. It’s not fair - direct our anger sensibly.
Don’t belittle a bisexual’s issues, don’t play the “I’m more tortured than you” game.
Treat their issues with respect, understand they may have DIFFERENT issues from you. Don’t act like they’re the backing group for the Big Gay Angst - they need their issues aired as well
Don’t imply bisexuality is a choice. Don’t suggest a bisexual can pretend to be straight (or gay). Don’t suggest their partners are interchangeable. Don’t suggest they can stop being bisexual.
Don’t buy into stupid stereotypes. A bisexual isn’t a gay who can’t admit it. They are capable of monogamy. They aren’t shagging everything in trousers/skirts et al.
The Bisexuals are in it with us for the long haul, they’re not going to quit early, they’re not dabblers, they’re not weekend warriors. They’re in their with us - respect them for that.
There’s my waffle. Bisexuals please feel free to weigh in with the many things I’ve got wrong (but don’t feel obliged to). And my GBLT brothers and sisters - we’ve got enough shit being thrown at us, let’s not give each other a hard time, ‘kay?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Glad this was brought up
Date: 2009-03-22 06:57 pm (UTC)Strangely enough, I've encountered it through an RPG character too. Jareth is a Cultist of Ecstasy and an equal opportunity lover because he's a joybringer and everyone with a heart needs to know love and acceptance and affection regardless of who they are. He's colorblind and well Genderblind too. When he 'came out' to someone in a bar setting in a public room, I suddenly got flamed, not from the person he was speaking to, but another player who had issue with Jer's casual seeming swinging-both-ways was acceptable. Is it wrong for a Bi person to accept being Bi and discuss openly his choice of lifestyle with another person? Jer wasn't even bringing it up because he wanted to sleep with that other person, they were discussing difficult choices in their lives and that happened to be a topic. Since the other player insisted in chewing me out OOC without using the private message function, there was a huge public mess arguing the point until RPing got too difficult in the room and I switched to IM so that we could continue the conversation in peace. I can't verify that the other player was actually gay or even what gender. They could have just spoken up to vent regardless of relevance and disrupt RP like a troll. Some people seemed to be on Jer's side arguing back against the other player, most were just annoyed this was being discussed and disrupting RP. The other player tried to make it a personal issue accusing or suggesting I personally play this type of character because I must be living vicariously through them and thus they get to have issue with me because I must be Bi. (and I can see the point since maybe 90% of the gay characters on the chats seem to be played by females and maybe another 20% of the gay females are played by guys.) That was the point where I ran out of tolerance and left the room regardless of whether my leaving seemed to prove the other player right.
I can understand in some ways how it can bother straight people or gay people that Bi people are assumed to be just Greedy, but I never bought into the assumption that it was a casual choice. If anything I imagine discovering this part of sexuality can be even More confusing with trying to understand why your brain and hormones react so strongly to a well endowed man or a woman with a big rack, realizing this and screaming at your body to "MAKE UP IT'S MIND!?!?!11!elventy-one!1" Since they can't what do they do then? Sure, they seem to have options, but which one do they go with? There's already all the pressure and stigma to be one or the other. What does one do when they are stuck in the middle and how do they come out to their BF or GF about it? For bi people who seem to have it easy, I know better than to think they do. Bi people don't get a win-win situation all because they can go both ways. If anything, they are in a lose-lose situation because they'll never be fully accepted by either side.
In the end, the Bisexual community is one of the closest natural allies the homosexual community has. Treating them like shit is going nowhere.
Here here!
Re: Glad this was brought up
Date: 2009-03-22 07:20 pm (UTC)This. Oh dear heavens, this. I knew about homosexuality as a teenager, and I knew I wasn't gay. But I /didn't/ know about bisexuality, and I suspect that I mangled a good number of things that could have worked out so much better if I'd know that liking both boys and girls was an option.
Re: Glad this was brought up
Date: 2009-03-22 07:50 pm (UTC)oh god, this. =(
[i suspect my being ASD and having trouble both identifying the emotions and communicating in the first place kept me from making too many messes, but it really screwed my teenage/young adult years up pretty good.]
Re: Glad this was brought up
Date: 2009-03-24 12:26 am (UTC)Re: Glad this was brought up
Date: 2009-03-24 04:45 pm (UTC)Is it wrong for a Bi person to accept being Bi and discuss openly his choice of lifestyle with another person?
Basic closet demand - a lot of people would be so very very very very happy if all of us in the GBLT ranks would just keep quiet about it if we're going to be so rude as to willfully be all sinful and stuff. It's like "fine you're G/B/L/T but there's no need to TELL people about it." like you're confessing to some terrible private crime or unsavoury personal habit
I imagine bi people have even more trouble with identity than conflicted gay teens - because they can't put themself in that nice easy box that we so love to classify people in