Help! Need someone who knows more about North American geography than I do!

[sparkindarkness]

As mentioned here: http://sparkindarkness.livejournal.com/204537.html I am running a werewolf game. Because I prefer to stick mostly to game canon and because the game requires the interaction of many many tribes it is to be set in the Americas (European werewolf tribes tend to have their own established territory and multi-tribal septs are rare or limited to maybe 3 tribes. It‘s also easier to shoot them there).

The things is I don't know exactly where to situate it. I want to keep it as close to the real world as possible (makes for less invention and more interesting research - in my last campaign they went Yuma, Arizona to Miami to Townsville, Queensland and I had lots of fun researching them all) but I am willing to tweak things (turn a moderate city into a NYC sized metropolis, for example). But I need somewhere to start.

So, what do I need?

A city moderately close to forested wilderness “close” can be “within 2-3 days solid travel” but more than a week would be pushing it. The wilderness has to be predominantly woodland.

Temperate/cold climate Snows in winter. Has pine trees. That kind of thing. No deserts, palm trees, calypso dancers.

Not somewhere already heavily established in White Wolf’s canon I like the canon, I use it a lot and don’t want to clash with it too badly since I may want to use it. So NOT: NYC, New York State, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago

A Camarilla City So nowhere that is established as Sabbat - so NOT Toronto (rest of Canada’s fine, I never bought the idea of all of Canada being a Sabbat holding - it made NO sense) Detroit, Miami, Mexico

Bonus points
Not essentials but they’d be nice bonuses if possible:

Native wolf population
Wilderness is actually a National Park or similarly legally protected
The city has a history (not necessarily current presence) of organised crime ties


All suggestions gratefully appreciated!


(ETA: I'm going to do brief research on each suggestion and probably post another post on detailed pros and cons of each :))

Comments

*howls*

[mrmeval.livejournal.com]

What about the midwest? I know Indianapolis and the surrounding area reasonably well.

It meets the climate conditions.

There is forest *in* the city limits and farm fields and ... cows. And I think I'd be safe to say I could walk a hundred miles and be under trees the whole way.

And nearby is...
http://www.allsands.com/travel/places/wolfpark_yyn_gn.htm
"For a spine-tingling experience the kids won't soon forget, take in a wolf howl. The Wolf Park, twenty minutes north of Lafayette, Indiana, is operated by the non-profit North American Wildlife Park Foundation, dedicated to public education about wolves. Considered one of the most extensive wolf research facilities in the world, the park was founded in 1972, by German native Dr. Erich Klinghammer, a zoo consultant and expert on dog and wolf behavior."

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

Maryville, Tennessee, is 25 miles from the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, which has been reintroducing the native red wolf. The park does have pine trees, along with hemlock, red spruce and yellow buckeye among others (according to one account, there are more species of trees in the Park than in all of Northern Europe). It used to snow regularly in winter, but hasn't much lately.

I don't know about organizes crime as such, but we do have a long history of moonshiners and bootleggers (cf. "Thunder Road," which references several locations in nearby Knoxville).

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/WOLF/population/range.htm

There's your choices for finding wolves in the wild. Not so great. There aren't any near any major cities, really.

Salt Lake isn't too far from the Idaho/Montana population though, and the Wasatch Front is full of forested mountain wilderness. (It's drier than many forests, and the undergrowth is less lush, but up in the mountains it's not desert anymore, there is snow and pine trees and such. I've been camping up there several times.) And I used to live near there, so I could answer questions about it. But organized crime and Salt Lake City are... about as far from each other as possible, really. *grins* Then again, SLC has a big punk/goth scene, which is also the last thing you'd expect, so... *shrug*

If you weren't ruling out Chicago, that'd be perfect. Seattle is possible, it's REALLY good on the forest/wilderness front, but not so good on the wolves, and I personally have only been there twice.

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

Most of Oregon, pretty much all of Idaho, and so on along the border with Canada -- try a look at the National Park Service website.

[stormcat.livejournal.com]

You want the Pacific Northwest -- Washington (state), Oregon, etc. Fits perfectly. Far northern California might work as well, though don't quote me on that.

Past that, grab Google Maps and find a decent-looking town near Seattle or something (just to give you a city name to grab on to.)

West Virginia/western Virginia (Roanoke, VA etc) might work as well, though not so sure of the wolf population. I know damn well they have cougar, though.

Hmm... Maine, Vermont, upstate New York, etc -- basically the upper states on the East Coast -- might work, though not sure about the wolf thing. Might also be a tad close to New York City.

WOLVES in Indiana

[mrmeval.livejournal.com]

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v251/LupineDream/Wolves%20in%20Indiana/

[harald387.livejournal.com]

Ottawa.

Meets all your criteria except the natural wolf population; the nearest wilderness is just a few hours by car (and serious 'if you get lost you might not get back' wilderness no more than a day), little's been said about it in canon, very much snows in winter, significant presence from the Hell's Angels and other criminal gangs.

And, as a bonus, at least three people on your friendslist can answer questions about the city.

[baranduyn.livejournal.com]

Seattle, Washington? Portland, Oregon? Bangor, Maine?

Native wolf population...forget about it. Very few wild wolves left in the United States. A dozen or so years ago Yellowstone National Park was repopulated. Then some tourist saw a wolf and they were all killed. Also, there was poaching. BASTARDS.

So...Canada. Out west, I should think. British Columbia, maybe.

I'm going to go huff my cooling-off bread now.

[polarbee.livejournal.com]

Anchorage, Alaska meets all of that criteria. Pretty much every that has to do with the fishing industry is owned by the Yakuza. (I am not kidding here.)
So there's your organised crime tie. (Husband's uncle was actually beat up for going to one of the last non-clan canneries a few decades ago.)
And wolves? Please. ;)

[sabine791110.livejournal.com]

Madison, Wisconsin! Or maybe Green Bay. But Madison is the better choice BY FAR. :-) We got over 100 inches of snow last year, there are foresty nature areas around, and it's a lot of fun. I'm not sure about natural wolf population, though.

[ciara-belle.livejournal.com]

I'd say somewhere in Alaska or in the Pacific Northwest. Maybe a smaller city near Seattle?

You could always use Forks, Washington, but they already have werewolves. ;D

[makarov.livejournal.com]

well, Tomah,Wi isn't too far from the Neceedah national wildlife refuge
neither is La Crosse, Wi

[blackironcrown.livejournal.com]

I'd actually recommend my home city of Atlanta.
- Surrounded by forest - the whole of Georgia is actually the Piedmont Forest down to the sandier marshlands and the whole thing gets more and more forested as you get to Alabama and further on. It's heavily pined.
- Directly to the north of Atlanta you have the North Georgia Mountains, part of the Appalachians. That is STILL the boonies. Mountain people, small cities that stand alone in the wilderness. Think Deliverance.
- Atlanta was traditionally Camarilla held, with Sabbat incursions from time to time.
- The climate is tricky. Atlanta has milder cold weather in the winter, but it's snowing in the mountains. Lots of ice. Then it turns fiercely hot and humid in the summer, like it was FL.
- Wolves were ONCE in those mountains, I think.
- Several national parks in the North GA Mountains.
- Atlanta DOES have ties to organized crime. Good ol' boy systems, racketeering, bootleg runners, the Dixie Mafia, several African-American national gangs, the Mexican Mafia - tons o' stuff.

[(Anonymous)]

The Pacific Northwest (Seattle or Portland) are both good. There's a temperate rainforest up there, and quite a lot of Nature Parks, but also a lot of land used for commercial timber farming, which is to say, you plant the trees and then kind of ignore the land for a decade. Not sure about wild wolf populations, though.

Um. For snow in winter/pine tree you're going to want to move farther North into Canada or find somewhere in the Rockies. Or both. Or Yellowstone National Park, which fits the bill fairly well. Yellowstone isn't just pine forests though, because of the geologic activity. But wolves were reintroduced back there a few decades ago and they do fairly well.

I'm not sure about a city with organized crime that hasn't been ruled out already. St. Louis has, in recent years, gone through such a recession that it is now the most violent city in America, but I don't think it's very organized crime.

Sorry I can't be more help, but have lots o' fun tormenting your players.

[gwailowrite.livejournal.com]

Northern Kentucky has Cincinnati, Ohio across the river and lots of land (I wouldn't call it a forest, but there is definitely places where the trees go on for miles. Go southern around Lousiville or way south Paducah. Massive winters. Horse country. Kentucky bluegrass. Some state parks out there (Mammoth Cave). Go further east and closer to Tennessee and you start headin into serious Appalachia.

[chesh.livejournal.com]

I would say the Twin Cities might work. Lots of varied forested areas around - there's national park that runs next to the Mississippi River almost all through the metro area, and that connects with actual national forest on one side of the city. There are mixed deciduous/conifer forests within a day or two walking distance, lots of prairie, and oak savannah.

There has been some work on reintroducing wolves, though lots of farmers are getting up in arms about it, just like everywhere else.

The city has a long history of mob ties - quite a lot of the caves facing the river were used as mob hideouts during the Prohibition, and a couple of them have been turned into honest clubs.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

Define "ties to organized crime" please. Would the cattleman/sheepherder conflicts count? How about anything related to stealing land from "red Injuns", anything related to gold rushes, any war profiteering from the Civil or Revolutionary Wars, or anything related to roving bandit gangs such as those headed by Jesse James or Billy the Kid?

Are you counting coyotes as wolves?

Going from your description, first impression is Seattle, WA and second impression is Butte, MT.

If you want snow, Atlanta doesn't get much. Not frequently and not inch-wise. It does get ice in the winter.

[semiotic-pirate.livejournal.com]

Billings, Montana Wiki
Denver or Boulder, Colorado Wiki

I prefer the Montana location, personally.

[a-roar-a.livejournal.com]

Portland, OR fits most of your criteria plus using the shanghai tunnels in a campaign seems like it could be all sorts of fun. Then again I am biased, as I love Portland dearly. ;op

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

Washington DC is a few hours away from Shenandoah National Park, and much of central Virginia is rural. Not much snow, but there's generally some every year. Charlottesville and Richmond in Virginia might also work, although the former doesn't have much in the way of organized crime.

Much of the southwest corner of Virginia is very rural, and all wilderness in this part of the country is woodland.

I can tell you pretty much anything you need to know about Charlottesville, especially. *grin*

Note - my icon is a picture taken near Washington DC.

[gnarlycranium.livejournal.com]

It doesn't exactly snow there, but... Seattle? I mean, you don't GET any more National Park/wilderness(biggest wilderness area in the US)local wolves/pine trees than that.

And as for organized crime? Boy howdy. Granted a ton of it is Chinese, but Seattle was an underworld paradise. Still has the highest per-capita rate of unexplained disappearances in the country.


.....Actually, I was up there myself researching a potential WW book a number of years ago, before the primary author got ganked to military duty in Afghanistan.

[cuglas.livejournal.com]

Minneapolis is 5 hours from the Canadian border and huge woods. Minnesota has wolves. They even stray as far south as Minneapolis sometimes.

St. Louis is 2 hours from the Shawnee National Forest and 5 hours from the Ozark Mountains. Lots of woods in the Ozarks. There aren't wolves in Missouri, but there are bears and mountains lions, so even if we had wolves, a lot of wolf activity would initially get passed off as a bear or a mountain lion.

Plus St. Louis has the Wild Canid Survival Center for breeding captive red wolves and grey wolves.