Ok, this thinking thing? Can we try it? Just for a minute?

[sparkindarkness]

Now, it would appear the Americans are heading into an election cycle and that’s always good for the rest of the world to watch with mild amusement, because, let’s be honest, no-one provides quality comic relief like American politics (albeit accompanied by a low grade feeling of dread and frequent “WTF?!” moments) and all speculating over exactly what narcotic is released into Florida‘s water supply. In between wondering whether a war that ended decades ago is going to get more press attention than the war currently happening and which paraplegic veteran is going to be accused of being a coward I find a shiny new gem of absurd amusement rising.

It would appear Huckabee is taking pot shots at Romney over his faith - specifically implying that Romney’s LDS faith (I tend not to use the word “Mormon” because I’ve never actually heard a Mormon call themselves that so I rather suspect it’s a labelling term used by others rather than their chosen descriptor) is ridiculous, ludicrous or otherwise silly (I believe the quote was something like “don’t Mormons believe Satan and Jesus are brothers”). I believe our reaction is supposed to be “ho ho ho, what a silly person!” and we see this backed up by more than a few rather dubious depictions of what the LDS church believes (including a very unpleasant denigrating cartoon that seems to have been resurrected from the 50s or 60s.)

Ok, can we have some sense now? Do LDS beliefs look silly? Well, I'm not sure because I don't think I trust any of the depictions of the faith. But, y’know, if you’re not LDS they probably do. But, hey, I’m not Christian and I think a whooooole lot of mainstream Protestant beliefs and Roman Catholic beliefs are pretty damn absurd. They certainly can be spun to sound that way by anyone looking to put them down. The same can be said of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism - hey, any faith you can name, including my own paganism. Cows are holy? Dietary laws? Wine turning to blood then drinking it? Half drowning yourselves? Circumcision? Laying on hands? Anointing? Baptisms? Rapture? Witchcraft? Communing with the elements? A god who has a paddy over the slightest thing?

To outsiders just about any religion looks silly. That’s simple truth. The only reason we don’t tend to call the “big name” religions silly is because they have such power and normative assumption among the populace (and the fact that some followers REALLY don't have a sense of humour but are very very very loud). Even if LDS did believe that Satan and Jesus were brothers (and I don’t give much credence to anything Huckabee says) it is scarcely more dubious than virgin births, resurrections, and an all powerful god allowing divine revolts anyway. There’s no shortage of objective silliness in any religion and I don’t think ANY faith is going to profit by sitting down and ridicule absurdities.

If Huckabee and his ilk want to throw the ridiculous rock they might want to make sure some of them don’t bounce back, because they hardly look more sensible.

Comments

[ciara-belle.livejournal.com]

Mike Huckabee is crazy. End of story. He comes across as charming and normal, but no. He would not be good news for the US.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

This is simple truth. the man is a lunatic, how can anyone read what he says and think he is normal?

[ciara-belle.livejournal.com]

If you just see him in certain formats, like on The Daily Show, he looks quite charming and he can be very funny. People need to pay more attention to his actual policies.

His supporters don't annoy me nearly as much as the Ron Paul people, though. Shut up Ron Paul supporters!

[lilisonna.livejournal.com]

You'd think that the Ron Paul folks would have stopped when he announced his continuing desire to put us back on the Gold Standard. But no.

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

You wouldn't like his views on gay marriage. Trust me.

Beyond that, he is anti choice and is against universal health care. And forget about gun control if this guy wins.

I happen to like Barack Obama myself.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Ah, I'm not being clear - in no way shape or form do i support or endorse Mit Romney. no way, nope never. But I think there are plenty of sensible reasons to object to him, beyond him being LDS

[illiana-galean.livejournal.com]

I was Mormon, or LDS for a few years, until they kicked me out for nothing more than marrying my leather wearing, spike clad, druidic practicing, soldier of a husband. Hehe. Most everyone I was around church wise at that time of life called themselves either or, so it's pretty much interchangeable, but Mormon tends to be said with more of a sneer.

It's been a long while, but I remember something about seven levels of heaven, adult drownings..er..baptisims, baptising the the long dead, and other strange things (like turning over X% of your gross income in tithing), but I don't remember anything about Jesus and Satan being brothers. I'm pretty sure that's something that would have stuck and still sent me into fits of hysterical laughter to this day.

Honestly? I don't follow politics anymore, or even put stock in voting. The Electoral College makes voting basically useless, and it's an over glorified popularity contest for prom queen anyway.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Gah, right wing religious types make my head ache.

Ah the many strange eccentricities of religion (the tithing one sounds like a great racket though)

Voter apathy is caused by their votes being irrelevent and all the parties being pretty shitty IMO

[ladydyani.livejournal.com]

COMMUNION WAFERS IS PEOPLE!

Ok, seriously, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously when they argue about religion. Even though they don't reflect my beliefs, I think the following pictures are hilarious:

http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/VictoriaE77/Fun%20Pics/?action=view¤t=intellegentzoo.jpg

http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/VictoriaE77/Fun%20Pics/?action=view¤t=motivational.jpg

Also, everyone and their brother should read this article:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15663_god-fuse-10-things-christians-atheists-can-agree-on.html

[illiana-galean.livejournal.com]

COMMUNION WAFERS IS PEOPLE!

What's funny, is my mom and I were talking about Sunday cannibalism..excuse me..communion after reading Sparky's post. Seriously, "Here's my body, eat me! Here's my blood, drink up!" Kiiiinda squicks me out.

[ladydyani.livejournal.com]

It is gross! What happens if you run out of bread? Find a suitable substitute and gnaw on his arm for a bit? The thought that you're actually chawing down on some body and blood is supposed to be comforting to people?

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Muahahaha, it is so true in so many ways - religions ARE ridiculous and funny. So long as you dont' follow thema nyway :)

[solid-squid.livejournal.com]

Wasn't there also an article about him mentioning his comments about how AIDS sufferers should be segregated from society?

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Yes. Very sadly, yes there was

[amynnah.livejournal.com]

If I'm lucky, I won't be around by the time the next political circus comes to town. I hate politics in the US. I do not like the armchair politicians who bitch about everything without actually doing anything. I do not like the extremists (both sides seem to have my email address... grr...).

::sighs:: I'm completely disenchanted with anything political. How bad is that? The only thing I'm doing is trying to live the best I can with all the mud-slinging going around, ducking my head, and staying out of trouble.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

That's a depressing look at luck

I don't like armchair politicians not trying - but I am far more tired of trying and not having anything make a difference, I have utter apathy because politics is pointless

[amynnah.livejournal.com]

Yeah... I'm dealing with a bout of depression right now... Sorry Spark... stupid heartbreak. /mutters to self.

It's so bad, the only way it could get any worse would be if Dubya came a-knockin' at my door, singing Christmas Carols, and wishing me a happy new year before Cheney shot me in the head.

::hugs Spark::

[lilisonna.livejournal.com]

While Huckabee is fairly conservative in his views, this attack struck me as somewhat out of character for him. It turns out that it probably was. The line got taken out of context during the middle of a lengthy interview and was, according to Huckabee, asked as an honest question and not as an attack. I suspect is something along the lines of saying, "In paganism, isn't the Devil just another deity?" It could be construed as an attack, but was more intended as a somewhat uneasy question asked in earnest by someone who just doesn't understand the faith.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

The thing is,m why is he even mentioning Romney's faith? I don't see what context would make such a term not an attempt at a smear. Really if he has such doubts anbout the LDS he really needs to seek private enlightenment

And Huckabee's religious leanings and views dont' seem to point to someone who has a lot of genuine interest in other faiths

[lilisonna.livejournal.com]

He's mentioning Romney's faith because apparently that's What You Do this election cycle. If I have to hear one more question about the candidates religious views, I may have to borrow your haddock.

[tanarill.livejournal.com]

You have to understand, though. In America, sane people don't go into politics. The insane ones that nobody likes go into politics.

In any case, yes, I agree 100%. Have you not been paying attention while I systematically list the crazy shits I (or other Jews) do for this religion?

I guarantee that no other religion on Earth demands that you rip up your toilet paper into neat little rolls before the Sabbath starts . . .

So, yes. Pot, kettle.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

There are sane americans? *runs and hides*

Oh yes, the silliness abounds and it does us incredible good to recognise our own silliness - and the silliness of our fellows

[tanarill.livejournal.com]

[indignant] And I suppose your country is run by the defender of the public good? Because I seem to remember a post about a local MP building an overpass that didn't help the vast majority of people but cut transit time for him . . .

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

We're British. We get to pleasantly eccentric instead of insane. It's in our contract :) Along with the good chocolate and decent cup of tea.

[tanarill.livejournal.com]

I'll give you the tea, but the Swiss do better chocolate.

Interestingly, you never hear about the Swiss politicians being nuts either. Maybe there's a correlation.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Nah, Swiss chocolate is bitter. Never been a fan of mainland chocolate.

Can't say I hear overmuch about Swiss politicians, but I expect they may be nuts too - they are politicans.

[slice-of-nick.livejournal.com]

It would be amusing if it weren't so scary. We have just seen what eight years of a complete fucking idiot can do. Of course I don't kid myself, Bush is just a sock puppet of Cheney and his pals. That's why he has trouble with elocution, he has a dick's fist up his ass. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) He got the office through plain and simple fraud, got away with it because Republicans had spent decades placing conservative judges in high places, and set about to dismantle the U.S. Constitution via the Patriot Act(how f-ing insulting) due to the golden calf known as 9/11.

Interesting that most fail to remember a very important tenet that U.S. government is based on, the separation of church and state. Even back in 1776, they had a clue. If Romney worships Val, hangs with Captain Kirk, and has an eerie shade of platinum blond hair, it's his right and his business. It should be irrelevant to the political debate and it's a way that the powers that be steer a fearful and confused public away from the actual issues.

I'm not fond of religion but I understand that others have the right to believe as they wish. However I do greatly object when the religious right becomes a fear based and destructive force against the ideals my country was based on, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, for everyone. How these ideals actually come to play in US government is the debate US should be having.

Instead we are talking about Satan and Jesus, etc. It is moments like this that I find myself being hypocritical. When I hear the Evangelical rants, I think 'Why don't you assholes go start your own fanatical religious country, the Republic of E. I understand there is some land in Guyana available.'

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

It is frightening what has happened in the last few years - I used to doubt the others would be much better, but having seen just how bad things can be - well, that kid of puts a new spin on lesser of two evils

Ah, but the righties don't believe in that seperation - because they do not want to believe it. people are good at ignoring things they don't like

I have dual opinions on a politician's religion being irrelevent. In the UK I largely agree - because poltiicans are VERY scrupulous to avoid mentioning god because we get very antsy about it. But if a politician is going to bring their religion into their job then it becomes fair game to scrutinise it ACCURATELY

[slice-of-nick.livejournal.com]

Aw but see I think you can tell without bringing up religion at all. You can tell by where the candidate stands on the issues themselves. Nobody runs for president out of the blue, unless of course they are Ross Perot. They have voting records. So without concerning myself with where they worship, I can tell how they have voted or what statements they have made on issues important to me. What's their stand on a woman's right to choice? On Gay marriage? The Iraq War? Torture? Health Care?

Of course this means that I have to do my homework. I also have to take note when a candidate wavers or changes, depending on their audience. You can also tell by who supports them and more importantly, who is giving them money.

Nine years ago, when Bush chose Cheney as his running mate, one could see the ground work for what is going on today. All the companies that these two men where/are connected to are making obscene amounts of money on the current 'conflict'. I don't think Cheney gives a rats ass about who marries who, abortion, or capital punishment. It's smoke and mirrors. I doubt he is a religious man but he is a greedy one. Then again, greed is a religion onto itself.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Sadly most voters WON'T do that. They'll listen to the soundbites or just vote on party lines, never mind voting records. People are lazy - after all it's only the leader of their country they're voting for, it's not like it's important like X factor, is it?

I am sure that Cheny is just using the Religious Wrong as a ticket for votes - but sadly they;ll never break out of it

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Well it all depends on how you define "brother" really... *chuckles* Sadly I don't like anybody who has half a chance of getting anywhere in this race.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

See, that's the thing. There are likely 100 interpretations and you can bet these people are going to dig up the worst

Isn't that always the way with politics - never anyone to vote for, only people to vote against

[allthepettylies.livejournal.com]

and all speculating over exactly what narcotic is released into Florida‘s water supply

What'd florida do now?

Oh, and its acid, btw.

*trips some more*

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

What, you mean Florida actually STOPPED being crazy? :)

[makarov.livejournal.com]

thank you for reminding me that in a little less than a year, i've gotta decide which of these dipshits i should vote for

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I'#ve never voted for anyone. i always end up voting against them

[cuglas.livejournal.com]

That's it, exactly.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

thankee