Random clubbing note #2

[sparkindarkness]

Moving to a gay bar after the straight club (because straight friend was a lightweight who went home early, and I like this place)

But there is something that consistantly spoils it




It’s no good. After dozens of unpleasant “conversations” and desperate attempts to be polite I’ve come to the conclusion that the best way to deal with guys on the “down low” is just to taser them as soon as they come in range.

In a desperate attempt to keep my wonderful refuge as a wonderful and fun refuge, I offer some advice to prevent painful electrocution:

1) You are here for a quick hook-up. Fine - that doesn’t mean all of us are, there are ways of flirting beyond going up to someone and saying “want to fuck?” Classy. Real classy. And no, i don’t care what the stereotype is, it is actually possible to be gay without being promiscuous. Don’t imply otherwise, it’s insulting.

2) There is no point in repeating “I’m not gay, I’m straight” every 5 seconds. You’re in a gay bar trawling for sex with other men, you’re not convincing anyone and we don’t care anyway. Keep it up and you’re just suggesting there’s something shamefully wrong with the guy you’re trying to pick up.

3) Mentioning your wife and kids to prove your “straightness?” Yeah, that’s impressive. Congrats you’ve just admitted you’re a cheater - but hey, at least you may have convinced someone you’re not gay, right?

4) Saying “I’m not queer, UGH!” or words to that effect - hmm yeah, the door’s over there. News flash, it’s a gay bar, we ARE queer. We come in here to get AWAY from that crap.

5) If a 55 year old, ugly-as-sin sweat factory approached a 25 year old hot girl in a bar, what do you think would happen? Right. Just because your target is a guy doesn’t mean everything else goes out the window - accept no as a no and don’t be surprised if your... excessive optimism leads to rejection. Or, y’know, you could try actually TALKING to someone.

6) Just because your definition of monogamy is rather more flexible than most doesn’t mean all of ours are as well. If someone says they’re involved that’s your cue to BACK OFF. Not keep going and CERTAINLY not cast doubt on the relationship or (and this is my favourite) imply that gay men can’t be/are never faithful (hey, you’re the one screwing around on your wife!)

Special bonus prize for the stupidest comment EVER: “I don’t need a condom, I’m not gay.” Even better when yelled across the bar. Yeah, you think ANYONE is going to go near you after that? I pity the guy’s wife and the disease he’s bound to bring home.

I’m sure there are probably many of these guys who are a lot more pleasant than the ones who ruin our night - but then, I probably wouldn’t recognise them as they’d likely not be waving their wife and kids around as a shield against teh gay

Gah, I think part of the problem is that they have some self-hate/homophobia issues going on and part is they miss the whole “community part” of being gay. Like any sub-culture, you identify and sympathise with your own “people.” And I think people within it tend to be at least polite to each other, especially locally, because if you’re a complete bastard you get ostracised and no-one will play with you. But because they don’t WANT to hang around with a pint or go to the movies or have a fun night out or whatever - they don’t get the social ramifications of their actions.

Comments

[elrohana.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I used to go to a lesbian bar/cafe when I lived in Germany (technically a gay bar but it was mainly girls) and was one of the few (mostly) straights who went there. I also went alone, because I worked in 2 bars for a living and got tired of sad fat old men hitting on me, and found the pleasant experience of being hit on by an attractive young woman very refreshing, even if I wasn't interested due to being in a relationship with a bloke (and the bar staff were cool and got to know me quick and used to warn people off so I could sit and drink my beer and read my book in peace). It would never have occurred to me to be offensively and loudly 'straight' in there, and the only women who ever persisted after the poilte rejection were trendy 'bi' girls looking for a gay fuck they could show off to their other trendy bi friends. Yuck. I adore gay pubs - the atmosphere is generally so much friendlier and calmer than in straight ones -I used to hang round in the Bridge and The New Penny in Leeds on Sunday nights years ago before heading for the Phono, ah happy days :)

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

I'm straight, and I like gay bars. They're normally relatively quiet and the company is sane - but I'm not there to pick up.

[wyrdrune.livejournal.com]

And one of the biggest problems I've ever encountered in a gay bar? Bi-phobia - "you're not one of 'us', but you're not one of 'them' therefore you must be hated by all."

Sorry, pet peeve.

[zero_pixel_count]

*sigh* People can be depressingly delusional sometimes... I mean, why, if one is homophobic, does one go in a gay bar in the first place? (Except by accident, but then I guess you'd leave once you realised...)

*snerk* Unless the guy who was announcing he didn't need a condom was actually in the middle of saying; "I'm only in here to buy a pack of cigarettes and I don't actually intend to sleep with anyone, last I heard I didn't need a condom to have a smoke goddamnit!" But I guess from your tone he probably wasn't... :P

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I do not understand the bi-anger. I think it comes from people who have faaaaar too much of a chip on the shoulder and want it to be more us vs them.

I know some idiots think bis are just closet cases but I just slap them - we (rightly) go apeshit when someone doubts our surety on our sexual orientation, we have no right to doubt others

It's a huge pet peeve with me as well - the GBLT community has enough people trying to slap us down without us infighting as well

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I just love gay clubs and pubs because it's a place I can relax without any possibility of anyone around me objecting to my horrible, sinful self :)

Well, you tend not to get trendy bi boys - only genuine bi boys. I don't think being a gay man will ever be trendy

I think it's the community make it friendlier

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

yup, if your secure in your masculinity (and don't mind the fact some may flirt with you), gay bars are a great place to hang out.

If people aren't sane then the gay community won't plauy with them then they're all alone

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

heh, ah let me translate what "Down low" means:
“Down low” is a strange slang term for guys who say they are straight, lead straight lives and often have wives and kids, but feel the need to sneak off to gay clubs to hook up for anonymous man-sex. I personally think the term “screwed-up closet cases” is more appropriate. But hey, far from me to pass judgement, even if they are so far in the closet they’re getting it on with Tumnus the Faun they’re not bothering me - but when they make a complete arse of themselves in our nice friendly gay club then it annoys


So while they often ARE homophobes, they still want teh hot man-sex some trawl gay clubs and pubs

And no, that freak wasn't. Really wasn't.

[zero_pixel_count]

*blinks* Ah. The translator was off... (little embarrasing, that. three, four years ago I had a decent grasp of freakin' palari, ffs (research for a bloody game-world. the things I do for my hobbies) but modern slang eludes me.)

But anyway, that's still just a tad illogical. Inconsistent, it is. Homophobic and hypocritical, dear me. (I think I'm being idiot-phobic.) So, people don't generally tell them where to get off?

(Shame. It would have spoken better for humanity as whole...)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Extremely illogical - but homophobes rarely are logical :)

Many do, unfortunately there are some who don't. I really don't get it myself - I don't care if they look like Orlando Bloom (and they don't), I wouldn't put up with that attitude. Some people need more self-esteem, methinks.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

*cracks up, falls over, dies laughing.*

I will now forever seek out occasions to say "so far in the closet they're getting it on with Tumnus" whenever possible!

[zero_pixel_count]

Well, there is that... Their conclusion is wrong, therefore (logically speaking :P) then there's either something flawed about the logic they used to get there, or their base assumptions are wrong, or both...

[bolshy mode OFF] it is sometimes hard to put one's foot down, even when they're way out of line; I can understand that. Even while I'm stomping about pretending to be tough...

[sapphybelle.livejournal.com]

Not to mention transphobia! Some people's prejudice is just astonishing.

[sapphybelle.livejournal.com]

so far in the closet they’re getting it on with Tumnus the Faun

O.O

*snerk*

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

Wait, you mean to tell me that insulting everyone in the bar isn't the best way to get a date? Huh. You learn something new every day.

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

so far in the closet they’re getting it on with Tumnus the Faun

Fantastic line.

[procris.livejournal.com]

I headed out to a gay bar once to return a favor of playing wing-man for a friend. he'd taken me to a couple straight bars so I could dance (it's handy to have a friend to go with who's a black belt in tae-kwon-do and likes to look at the boys with you) and he wanted his turn to try for numbers. I figured that at least at the gay bar I'd be hit on by girls, who I could politely tell "no thanks," since I'm into teh boys. but no... Not one woman hit on me, and I was hit on by more extremely sketchy guys at the gay bar than at the straight one. What kind of guy goes to a gay bar to pick up chicks?

Sigh. I haven't been clubbing since G headed to your side of the pond to attend Oxford. Damn you brits stealing all the good ones...

[logophilos.livejournal.com]

“I don’t need a condom, I’m not gay.”

Wow. It's like a haiku of stupid, only not so long :)

[cosmorific.livejournal.com]

I’ve come to the conclusion that the best way to deal with guys on the “down low” is just to taser them as soon as they come in range.

Wow, I didn't realize our Evangelical Christians had resorted to trolling clubs across the pond. ;)

[ephemera.livejournal.com]

I really *do not get* not so much the guys who are 'out on the down low' but the guys who sleep with them. Mind you I'm not wired for one night stands, so maybe it's just a multiplication of brain stated that it's an effort for me to empathise with.

But people who think *being rude about people* is going to get them to sleep with you? *zapp*

I'm always aware, when I'm in a gay club, that I'm more or less in someone elses safe space, and I know exactly how much I hate obnoxious tourists in goth clubs, so I try to be a decent human being. [and I've just refused to take my friend's hen party to a gay club - the idea just set off *all* my hot buttons]

[ladydyani.livejournal.com]

"I've got no problem with god, it's his fan club that bothers me."

I gotta get me a taser.

[ladydyani.livejournal.com]

Um. Wow. I had no idea there were any people left that stayed in the closet forever. Naive of me perhaps, but I really though things were better than that.

Aside from the gender assignment, the same thing happen to women when skeezy guys hit on us. According to your numbers:

1) Heard it.
3) Heard it (minus the "proving straightness" thing. He was pointing out how responsible he was.)
5) Had it happen.
6) Had it happen.

Sigh. I fear commenting on your journal has depressed me.

[the-yellow-king.livejournal.com]

Phwah? What?
Y'know, I can't even come up with the witty comeback on this one. It's a wonder ya'll didn't throw his ass out.

[home-of-usher.livejournal.com]

Wow... the stupid is out in Force. I've been to one fun club in my Life that I'd go back to, and it turned out to be a Gay club my girltype friend and her other friend would go to. he would go for the guy, and she would go for the eyecandy and moral support and I was there to take her home should he score. And really it was really nice. I took Any sort of attention as a compliment and we had a fun game of Pool with a pair of really sweet lesbians. I've been back twice with them as often as they'll ask me along. Oh! and once for hllaowee with other friends. And That was wild. The gay clubs have better parties if you ask me.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Aye, it's silly, we don't need to isolate out allies

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Personally i just politely tell them to bugger off. I am just astonished (and siappointed) that there are some who will play with these rude people

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

It is a good line that must be used at every opportunity. I wish I remember when i fist came across it

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

extra snerk :)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

isn't it though?

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Astonishing isn't it?

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

People underestimate the power of mutual drooling :)

Gah, straight guys infesting a vgay bar? Maybe thjere was just a lot of bis?

We have to steal the good ones, otherwise we lose snooty rights

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Indeed. I was quite amazingly stunned

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

heee, I think they're just THAT desperate

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Amen to that!

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

That's what gets me. I can understand the down low people - they're scared. They're wqrapped in self-hate and facing all kinds of suck.

But what kind of self-esteem issues do you have to have to sleep with someone who hates you, hates the sex you're having and hates himself for doing it? I can only assume they can utterly divorce sex from the people and emotions and factors around it - so it just becomes sex. I just don't get it.

Yeah, I'm amazed at that - you're trying to pick people who so you INSULT them? What's wrong with that.

It sounds arrogant to say "this is my space" but to a degree it's true - gay clubs ARE our space and straight visitors are visitors. It sounds horriblky wrong and territorial but we NEED that space to relax and be safe and just have a conversation without looking over our shoulders and using damn euphemisms all the time.

And it is a lot like goth clubs on the community side of it. The REAL members of the community are polite because they want to be part of the community and no-one will play with you if you're and arsehole - it's the tourists (both the wannabes and those who have come to stare at us - oooh, that's for another rant) that annoy

A hen party at a gay club? Presumably straight women? Oh dear.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I would say that the majority of gay people still spend most or their entire lives in the closet. Certainly most gays over the age of 30.


Alas, we should cut these people up and eat them smothered in chocolate - then we shall feel happy again

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

It never occurred to me to try *headslap* I just give them the extremely short brush off until they pester someone else

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

The stupid is always out in force. Sometimes I think we are under constant siege in a losing war.

That sounds like a full night out that worked for all :)

We ALWAYS have the best parties. it is known

[cosmorific.livejournal.com]

Well, judging by the one who not only solicited a male prostitute for sex but bought crystal meth from him, I'd say that's a fair assessment.