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The internets have the shinies
Dec. 22nd, 2008 12:29 pmBrowsing through my ever increasing google reader, a link of a link lead me to this little gem
http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html
It's a exposition/rant from an atheist on why atheists are angry and why that anger is important. I'm not an atheist, but there is much food for thought and important information there.
But, in addition to being a genuinely good and well thought out piece, it contains some real gems, which i'm going to extract and hope the original author forgives me for the presumption:
And I get angry when believers act as if these offenses aren't important, because "Not all believers act like that. I don't act like that." As if that fucking matters. This stuff is a major way that religion plays out in our world, and it makes me furious to hear religious believers try to minimize it because it's not how it happens to play out for them. It's like a white person responding to an African-American describing their experience of racism by saying, "But I'm not a racist." If you're not a racist, then can you shut the hell up for ten seconds and listen to the black people talk? And if you’re not bigoted against atheists and are sympathetic to us, then can you shut the hell up for ten seconds and let us tell you about what the world is like for us, without getting all defensive about how it's not your fault? When did this international conversation about atheism and religious oppression become all about you and your hurt feelings?
Yes. Just Yes. I have seen this so many times. You see an article about sexism and suddenly the discussion becomes about men pointing out that THEY'RE not like that and suddenly it's all about men. You see an article about racism and suddenly the topic is the hurt and upset white people who aren't like that. Part of the major stumbling blocks anyone from a privileged group (and yes, being male or white or straight or Christian IS privileged in most of our societies) faces is the shocking idea that something ISN'T ABOUT THEM
I recall a straight acquaintence getting huffy about gay bars. "Why do you get gay bars? There are no straight bars!" Yes. There are. EVERY bar in the country that ISN'T a gay bar is a straight bar. There isn't a "Men's Institue" because just about every organisation in the world not specifically for women is man's institution. There's a black history month because most of the rest of history is so damned white washed its dazzling in direct light.
It's not all about you (you being the privileged group which most certainly contains me as well). And an article about sexism/racism/homophobia/whatever is not about YOU. A place where the oppressed can go and be themselves is not about YOU. Most of the rest of the world is about you, these little corners not being about you are not going to break you.
Anger is Necesary. Because anger has driven every major movement for social change in this country, and probably in the world. The labor movement, the civil rights movement, the women's suffrage movement, the modern feminist movement, the gay rights movement, the anti-war movement in the Sixties, the anti-war movement today, you name it... all of them have had, as a major driving force, a tremendous amount of anger. Anger over injustice, anger over mistreatment and brutality, anger over helplessness...... It is not up to believers to tell atheists that we're going too far with the anger and need to calm down. Any more than it's up to white people to say it to black people, or men to say it to women, or straights to say it to queers. When it comes from believers, it's not helpful. It's patronizing. It comes across as another attempt to defang us and shut us up. And it's just going to make us angrier.
Anger. How often is that used against the oppressed? "Why are you so angry?" "Don't be so angry!" "You're being uppity." "You're a bitch." "Your anger puts people off." Our anger is seen as some kind of flaw, or sin when it is an asset. Anger is the fire that makes you get up and do something. Anger is the tide that forces us forwards, that makes us yell "enough," that stops us tolerate the shit, that stops us taking the easy way out.
And if the anger so offends people - have they never considered that maybe we have a damned good REASON to be angry? When the right wingers are clucking over the gays picketing churches or the commentator nearly spitting venom into the mic or large shouting demonstrations and marches or anger, seething books do they never think "these people are pissed, what have I done to them?" Don't belittle our anger by asking us to calm down, to be moderate - don't imply we don't have a damned good reason to be angry.
And when believers tell passionate, angry atheists that extremism is never right and the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle, they're making a big, big mistake
The middle ground - again this applies to every fight to be treated decently that every oppressed minority has faced. Be reasonable. Meet them half way. Don't be an extremist.
Well, the opposite position is me and mine don't exist. Me and mine don't have basic human rights - and it's been the same for women, for ethnic minorities, for minority religions - every political struggle for an oppressed has had 2 sides
1: X doesn't deserve full human rights
3: X deserves the same human rights as everyone else.
So where's 2? Where's the middle ground we should be fighting for? Where's the "moderate" position us extremists at 3 should be fighting for? Do we get some human rights? Most human rights but a few are just too special for us? Human rights on paper but everyone's still going to treat us like shit? Human rights but they're not enfirced? What IS the moderate ground between "I'm a normal person" and "I'm unworthy scum?" and why should I be aiming for it?
I could go on for horus really, it's a gem of a rant and has some really good food for thought in it. Every point could have me writing a long rant of my own
http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html
It's a exposition/rant from an atheist on why atheists are angry and why that anger is important. I'm not an atheist, but there is much food for thought and important information there.
But, in addition to being a genuinely good and well thought out piece, it contains some real gems, which i'm going to extract and hope the original author forgives me for the presumption:
And I get angry when believers act as if these offenses aren't important, because "Not all believers act like that. I don't act like that." As if that fucking matters. This stuff is a major way that religion plays out in our world, and it makes me furious to hear religious believers try to minimize it because it's not how it happens to play out for them. It's like a white person responding to an African-American describing their experience of racism by saying, "But I'm not a racist." If you're not a racist, then can you shut the hell up for ten seconds and listen to the black people talk? And if you’re not bigoted against atheists and are sympathetic to us, then can you shut the hell up for ten seconds and let us tell you about what the world is like for us, without getting all defensive about how it's not your fault? When did this international conversation about atheism and religious oppression become all about you and your hurt feelings?
Yes. Just Yes. I have seen this so many times. You see an article about sexism and suddenly the discussion becomes about men pointing out that THEY'RE not like that and suddenly it's all about men. You see an article about racism and suddenly the topic is the hurt and upset white people who aren't like that. Part of the major stumbling blocks anyone from a privileged group (and yes, being male or white or straight or Christian IS privileged in most of our societies) faces is the shocking idea that something ISN'T ABOUT THEM
I recall a straight acquaintence getting huffy about gay bars. "Why do you get gay bars? There are no straight bars!" Yes. There are. EVERY bar in the country that ISN'T a gay bar is a straight bar. There isn't a "Men's Institue" because just about every organisation in the world not specifically for women is man's institution. There's a black history month because most of the rest of history is so damned white washed its dazzling in direct light.
It's not all about you (you being the privileged group which most certainly contains me as well). And an article about sexism/racism/homophobia/whatever is not about YOU. A place where the oppressed can go and be themselves is not about YOU. Most of the rest of the world is about you, these little corners not being about you are not going to break you.
Anger is Necesary. Because anger has driven every major movement for social change in this country, and probably in the world. The labor movement, the civil rights movement, the women's suffrage movement, the modern feminist movement, the gay rights movement, the anti-war movement in the Sixties, the anti-war movement today, you name it... all of them have had, as a major driving force, a tremendous amount of anger. Anger over injustice, anger over mistreatment and brutality, anger over helplessness...... It is not up to believers to tell atheists that we're going too far with the anger and need to calm down. Any more than it's up to white people to say it to black people, or men to say it to women, or straights to say it to queers. When it comes from believers, it's not helpful. It's patronizing. It comes across as another attempt to defang us and shut us up. And it's just going to make us angrier.
Anger. How often is that used against the oppressed? "Why are you so angry?" "Don't be so angry!" "You're being uppity." "You're a bitch." "Your anger puts people off." Our anger is seen as some kind of flaw, or sin when it is an asset. Anger is the fire that makes you get up and do something. Anger is the tide that forces us forwards, that makes us yell "enough," that stops us tolerate the shit, that stops us taking the easy way out.
And if the anger so offends people - have they never considered that maybe we have a damned good REASON to be angry? When the right wingers are clucking over the gays picketing churches or the commentator nearly spitting venom into the mic or large shouting demonstrations and marches or anger, seething books do they never think "these people are pissed, what have I done to them?" Don't belittle our anger by asking us to calm down, to be moderate - don't imply we don't have a damned good reason to be angry.
And when believers tell passionate, angry atheists that extremism is never right and the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle, they're making a big, big mistake
The middle ground - again this applies to every fight to be treated decently that every oppressed minority has faced. Be reasonable. Meet them half way. Don't be an extremist.
Well, the opposite position is me and mine don't exist. Me and mine don't have basic human rights - and it's been the same for women, for ethnic minorities, for minority religions - every political struggle for an oppressed has had 2 sides
1: X doesn't deserve full human rights
3: X deserves the same human rights as everyone else.
So where's 2? Where's the middle ground we should be fighting for? Where's the "moderate" position us extremists at 3 should be fighting for? Do we get some human rights? Most human rights but a few are just too special for us? Human rights on paper but everyone's still going to treat us like shit? Human rights but they're not enfirced? What IS the moderate ground between "I'm a normal person" and "I'm unworthy scum?" and why should I be aiming for it?
I could go on for horus really, it's a gem of a rant and has some really good food for thought in it. Every point could have me writing a long rant of my own