Dumbledore kerfluffle

[sparkindarkness]

Dumbledore’s gay. It amuses me muchly, especially since I imagine there are many ultra-religious righties who were already burning the books for witchcraft have now just spontaneously combusted with outrage (and that’s always funny, you have to agree).

Is it a big step forward for gays everywhere? Well, millions of people are apparently reading books with a central gay character, but wouldn’t know about it unless the hear of Rowling’s revelation. Still, it’s a lot of exposure there. Personally, I think it can only be a good thing and certainly does no harm :) When it comes down to it, it's a character. he happens to be gay, there's no need to read anything more into it than that

People have bitched about why he didn’t reveal this in the books. Well, let’s take a step back and look at the books shall we. They’re about Harry Potter (hence the titles) a boy from the age of, what, 10-18? And his battle against Voldemort. The books are written nearly entirely from Harry’s point of view to my memory, less than, what, 5% of the book isn’t from his view point and they usually involve death eaters.

Right, now remember when you were between the ages of 11-18 and your relationship with your teachers. At which point did your headmaster avow his love for cock or pussy to you? What? You mean you headmaster didn’t discuss his love life with you? Damn, how heartless!

I didn’t know if any of my teachers were gay, straight, bi, single, coupled or in happy polygamous groups. The only clue I ever had was some of the women had “mrs” in front of the names. I didn’t even know the first names of some of my teachers. They could have been gay. They could have been straight. They could have been bi. They could have been sexing up their neighbour’s Rotweiler. I don’t think I’m unusual on that score, teachers are usually rather reticent in discussing their sex lives with their pupils, well, except for in one or two rather sensational cases.

So at which point in teaching Harry, advising Harry, guiding Harry and otherwise fighting the evil of Voldemort should Dumbledore have turned round and said “Did I ever mention how much I love hawt mansex?” At which exact point in the books would it have been appropriate, believable or realistic for Albus Dumbledore to explain his sexuality to his student?


(And to everyone saying she just added this after the series finished... well, point 1: You did read Deathly Hollows, right? Because, y'know Dumbledore/Grindelwald? Written in pretty LARGE print, really. Point 2: she said she had to tell a screenwriter that when he had dumbledore mention a past female love - don't you think he'd come forwards and sday "bitch please, that never happened?")


ETA:
Oh and can we have a big WTF to all those who are saying this is some kind of political statement? Hello, various studies have concluded that homosexuals make up between 3%-10% of the population (depending on study - the closet makes it hide to track us) yet the mere EXISTANCE of a gay character is a political statement? That's ridiculous! That's like saying the ethnic diversity shown throughout the Harry Potter novels was a political statement. Acknowledging people exist isn't political correctness or agenda driven or any other stupid clap trap they're spouting. It's simpel acknowledgement of the diversity of the human race.

Comments

[stormcat.livejournal.com]

THANK you.

Of course, you KNOW some complete morons are going to decide that this is the REAL reason Dumbledore was fond of Harry. Couldn't be anything as simple as being a mentor, guardian and friend to a child in deep, deep trouble not of his own making.

(Why yes, I have already heard that theory. I gave the speaker a Blank Stare of the "Aaaannnnndddd your crack dealer operates out of where again?" variety.)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I have already seen one comment of how the books are ruined because the reader will always picture Dumbledore perving over Harry, Ron et al. No, just NO.

[dontkickmycane.livejournal.com]

Well of COURSE! because everyone knows being gay is practically the same thing as being attracted to little boys. /sarcasm.

I too have heard that asinine theory. And I want off the crack train.

I think Mercedes Lackey beat that horse to death already. Maybe that's another reason jKR decided not to bring it up. Besides the very obvious reason, as Sparky pointed out, it just really doesn't matter, and isn't something a teenage boy would even notice unless maybe he was struggling with his own identity issues, and then the story would be about something else completely and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

Luckily, all I have seen of that theory is from people calling it idiotic. I am sure, however, that a customer will spill that nonsense on me very soon. I have certainly heard about how the books promote Wicca and Satanism, much to my pagan heart's bitter amusement.

[touchstone.livejournal.com]

Hello, various studies have concluded that homosexuals make up between 3%-10% of the population

And somewhat higher in academia :)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I always suspected as such :)

[amynnah.livejournal.com]

Oh Spark... I was just itching for your response to Harry Huey and the Dumbledore Kablooey. <3 You never fail to disappoint.

Students don't usually try to delve into their teachers' personal lives (teacher/student relationships notwithstanding, but that's a whole other can of suck)... it's just not something that's thought about. Personally, Dumbledore always struck me as a gentle, caring man, and he reminded me a lot of Gandalf from LotR (and not the movies). :)

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

I do try :)

Nope, teachers are weird freaky aliens and they most certainly don't have sex. EVAH! EW!

[jerril]

You're right about not delving into their personal lives. Most students are stunned stupid when they run into a teacher outside of school for the first time.

"OMG It's Mrs. Appleby in the grocery store! You're allowed out of the school at night? And you EAT?"

I think it's because the kids run into teachers generally only in very strictly defined circumstances, but until they have the first Horrible Revelation, I don't think any kid really thinks the teacher even EXISTS outside of school hours.

[klgaffney.livejournal.com]

yeeeah, and also, she obviously did this just to get attention. *rolls eyes* and any other author that points out gays in their books are just "hopping on the bandwagon." i generally chalked this entire mess up as 85% of humanity is on the worst sort of crack. it's completely absurd.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

As if she doesn't already have enough attention?

Yes, ebcause recognising 10% of the population is gay is bandwagon jumping. I really do wonder at these folks who trot out these lines. Do they never, ever think for 2 seconds?

Agreed. i subscribe wholeheartedly to your "humanity is on crack" thesis. I will make sure your cult recognises this :)

[tanarill.livejournal.com]

This is a good point. It's so good, in fact, that Neil Gaiman wrote a comprehensive post on the subject. What it comes down to is this:

In any writing, there's lots and lots that never makes it to the paper. When and if the author decides to tell you those things is their choice. The extra information might be what the character's favorite color is, or what their sexual orientation is. If it wasn't on paper, it probably didn't matter to the story, or mattered more than you had to learn it yourself.

The only reason these people are upset is because of homophobia. If JKR had come out and said that, actually, Dumbledore had an illegitimate child with McGonnagal, you'd have people screaming bloody murder because of children resulting from extramarital sex. It's not like you can escape the idiocy. I respect her for standing up to it instead of letting the stupi ones ruin it for the rest of us.

And really, if the fact that Dumblebore was gay makes it impossible to enjoy the books, than you don't have to read them. You're not being forced to. Just stop complaining to us that your narrow-mindedness is ruining it for you. It's not our fault, it's yours.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

he sums it up perfectly. I say again and again for every single page of plot I write, i have 20 pages of world building (hells, for Virtue of Steel that goes up to 50 at least) they never make it to the story, thye interest no-one but me, but I know and if someone came up to me and asked me Darren's favourite food or when Ian lost his virginity - I know.

Exactly, this should be completely irrelevent and minor biographical information about a character but people are acting like it's earth shattering. It's quite quite ridiculous

[ladydyani.livejournal.com]

It's marketing.

Everyone who's interested in the books has already bought them. Are there any Harry Potter fans that haven't bought Deathly Hallows yet? So who's gonna buy the books now?

Tons of religious righties will end up buying the books to look for the gay agenda. Picture some preachers reading the books on a Saturday night while writing their sermons. Amusing, no? Think of the chick tracts they'll come up with! Homosexuality and witchcraft covered in one little book!

Others will buy the books because they see buying books that have a gay character as being supportive. Or just trendy. Sorry to say so, but a lot of people think supporting alternate lifestyles (is being gay still considered that?) is a trendy thing to do.

JK is a marketing genius.

[klgaffney.livejournal.com]

eh, actually a significant amount wait until christmas, and another significant amount buy the box sets, at least, that's what i noticed when i had to stock the series. there's always people that want to wait 'til a series is ended before they'll pick it up. i mean, i didn't bother with the series at all until book 5, and i still haven't gotten around to reading it.

Sorry to say so, but a lot of people think supporting alternate lifestyles (is being gay still considered that?) is a trendy thing to do.

sure, for adults, but the vast majority in this country are still pretty damn flaky about homosexuality when it comes to their kid's reading material. basically it came down to some kid in a q&a session asking about dumbledore's love life, and her explaining who it was, and explaining that she did at one point have to correct the movie director. i don't think she had any ulterior motives here--it was the news media that picked it up and ran, because omg, a gay character in a children's series! how shocking! of course they're going to take advantage of the free press, but as a marketing ploy, this would have been VERY risky one.

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

Actually, there are a lot of fans who have started late on the series. I see people buying earlier volumes all the time, and book seven is still ranked 53 on bn.com.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

My first cynical instinct was that, but to my mind the timing is off.

The Potter books are already wildly popular and are still major best sellers - there's no need to resoprt to shock marketing yet to get them back in the public eye. We're not before a book or film release that would justify more attention seeking and it's not close enough to Christmas. Some of the fil;ms have let to be released ensuring continued potter mania for the foreseeable future

To my mind such marketing would be useful in about 2 years when the last film has passed and people are moving away from Potter.

If it's marketing i think it's been done highly poorly

[mauracelt.livejournal.com]

He's gay? Really? I haven't read the whole series yet, so I didn't know. I only got to the sixth book, I think. Or is that all that's out right now, only six? When did Rowling do the release for this, just curious. I think it's great that she did it, trust me, it's time someone was brave enough to allow one of the main characters in a book to be gay and Not all up in people's faces about it.

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

It's never stated in any of the books. JKR just outed him in a question/answer session with some young fans.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

The books don 't make it clear though the last book has HINTS in block caps. There was a big convention or meeting or something and she revealed it in a Q&A when someone asked about Dumbledor finding love.

I think the last book was book 7, I'm not sure.


Aye, that's one of the things i said in my earlier rant about gays in the media - it is possible to have gay characters who don't flounce around bedecked in rainbows

[wonapalei.livejournal.com]

Acknowledging people exist isn't political correctness or agenda driven or any other stupid clap trap they're spouting.

SO. GODDAMN. TRUE. It's called being fucking realistic, people. I'm seriously pissed off by both sides here. I expected the usual fundie idiocy, but I was blindsided by the sudden vitriolic attacks from the left, screaming that the bitch should have had the balls to put it in the book, not "announce" it afterwards. Christ on the cross. She didn't "announce" it; she answered a question, one of many that she has similarly been asked and answered in the past and no doubt will continue to do so.

It had no place in the book, except insofar as it was hinted at, and considering how my flist exploded with "OMG did you see the Dumbledore/Grindelwald it was everywhere" after the seventh book, that's some pretty damn texty subtext there. I didn't see any gossip about the school slut being banged by the entire Hufflepuff Quidditch team, either, and for the same reason: it's not fucking relevant. All that we needed to know was that Dumbledore was completely blinded by Grindelwald's brilliance until it was too late. That it was partly sexual attraction was irrelevant and would have been rather difficult to shoehorn in, since we'd have to see Harry's reaction to that bit of news and probably get bogged down.

Grrr.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Simpel realism. It would be like saying "OMG she included an east-Asian person, she is so jumping on the bandwagon!" its ridiculous.

The stupid over this is amazing. We expect the religious wrong to be up in arms and frothing over this but the numbe rof my fellows screaming "well if he were gay it should have been obvious" (yeah, because we NEED more damaging stereotype characters out there) "and he should have told everyone!" (because no-one is closeted, y'know) "And he should have told Harry!" (because teachers always discuss their love lives with pupils).

Please. It's a book. It has a gay character. We should celebrate that and not whine because she didn't bedeck hogwarts in triangles, rainbows and linked mars symbols. She isn't obliged to try and force great strides in gay recognition because she is accepting enough to have a gay character. I want to scream at them "C'mon, she's said one of her major characters is gay. This is a GOOD thing. She is on OUR side! What the hell is wrong with you?!" It's like having a volunteer soldier then bitching because they refuse to join the suicide squad.

Oh yes and that was another thing "she's just made it up after the fact" c'mon - Dumblodre/Grindelwald was pretty heavy TEXT. I think it's because heteronormative thought just doesn't go down those pathways even when they are verrrrry clearly marked. But yea, we hear very little about the sex lives of most of the pupils let alone the teachers because that's not what the books are about!

[thisdaydreamer.livejournal.com]

I know that two of my high school teachers are a couple, and probably were when I was in school, but I had no idea until I saw them shopping together in the bookstore several times. For the record, Miss H and Miss M make a cute couple.

I think JKR could have had Dumbledore mention his feelings for Grindewald in that afterlife scene. I am still disappointed she didn't bring it up in the books because she passed up a great opportunity. As you pointed out, kids have no idea whether most of the adults in their lives are straight or gay, and that leaves them with very few openly gay role models in their lives. Dumbledore is fictional, but he is someone that kids know and trust.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Well, I knew 2 of our teachers were a couple but that's because another teacher was a gossip and had a loud voice :) But that's it, we find out teachers are couples accidentally. Frankly, I had problems thinking of any of my teachers as having lives outside of school, even the ones who were severely steamy hot and I wasted many a physics lesson drooling over.

I think I can see why she didn't though, it would have been a major derrail point on the major plot - especially since even the afterlife scene was all about Harrry. the focus of the books have always been about Harry and, especially during a fast action fight scene, I can see why she wouldn't want to distract from that

Mountain out of a Molehill... o_0 *twitch*

[semiotic-pirate.livejournal.com]

Hell, I knew that Dumbledore was gay when that guy (who attended the wedding, can't remember his name) wrote that obituary, the one who was going to go on a whirlwind tour of the rest of the world after graduation?? I'm sure that they were school sweethearts. It was so obvious - the only reason Harry, etc. didn't see that (maybe they did and the plot line didn't need cluttering with extraneous facts) was because they were caught up in their Quest.

The only love lives we learned about were those of the main characters as they struggled through their growing maturity. Anything else was touched on very lightly if at all. Any other story of this type are exactly the same - you don't find out about these things if it isn't integral to the heroes journey.

btw: Glad to see you are better enough to start replying and posting anew. Taking your medicine? *ducks from possible haddock flying my way*

Re: Mountain out of a Molehill... o_0 *twitch*

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

There were a fair amount of hints, weren't there? Part plot and part because you don't think of your teachers that way I think

Exactly it just wasn't a part of the plot and would have looked strange or even forced if it were included


Thank you and yes I am taking the vile vile vile stuff *throws haddocks*

Hi, sweet man

[ravens-voice.livejournal.com]

I found my way here - now I have to learn the protocols and such. I don't know how to navigate my way around this place yet.

Kathe

Re: Hi, sweet man

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Welcome to my crazy crazy place. It's actually easy to naviagte, don't worry, certainly compared to Yahoo360 :)

I think I've found you there - my Yahoo 360 Far Sight (farsightuk) is just trying to friend a journal ravens voice which I am 99.9999% sure is yours by the content