sparkindarkness | Now for some drama and a look for second opinions

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world of warcraft

Now for some drama and a look for second opinions

Now for some drama and a look for second opinions

Drama that took place in WoW but can really be understood by all and the WoW isn’t really the integral part.

Now our guild had a guild leader. He was GM when it was founded but has been inactive since, well, November 2007. He has not lead a raid, handled promotions or even been online for more than an hour since then (except for one or two dramatic instances) After a series of dramas, clashes and irritations (which I will expand upon later) he officially stepped down in August (guild reaction: who is this person? I’ve never seen him before) and S and I became dual GM and... well continued doing exactly the same as we have always done really since we have been running the guild for a year now anyway

Naturally our little “coup” covered a lot of drama, but it has left S & I perhaps unduly touchy and sensitive to any comments from T, the old GM. The below text was posted on the forum by him recently. Upon reading it S contacted me in outrage - I read it and have to say that I‘m not exactly fond of the tone. One of our Officers, L, who also read it was rather stunned.

BUT it‘s possible that we‘re just overly sensitive and/or he worded it poorly and it isn‘t REALLY as condescending an patronising as it sounds. Especially since we‘re all wary about his sudden sporadic activity and this growing impression we‘re getting that he expects us to make him GM again:

8th on [Server] ladder on alliance side and that is more then i have had in mind when i created the guild...
4942 on the EU ladder, thats green text on wowjutsu = )
And the ladder haven't updated all kills yet.

I just wanted to say a big thanks, you guys are doing a great job leading this guild. And you are making me realy proud. I hope i can join the bigger instances soon.

JUST A BIG THANKS AND <3 LOVE TO YOU ALL.

So are we reading too much into it? Are we just oversensitive? Or was our first "WTF?" reaction accurate?

ETA

To explain the first sentence - as Illiana and Herald has said, Jutsu is a site the tracks how successful a guild is based on the number of bosses the guild has killed, frequency of kills and how hard the bosses are. Basically, it shows our "ranking" in comparison to other guilds on the Server (and on all European servers)

It does currently show us as the 8th strongest Alliance guild on the server, but it hasn't recorded all of our boss kills. Oh, and 4 of the guilds above us have disbanded - 2 of them for several months. So we're 4th on our server :P

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I think you're reading too much into it - to me it sounds like someone who's been going through some times where he hasn't been able to play, is now playing sporadically, feels you're doing a grand job on the guild which he started and is looking forward to joining in more as time goes.

I don't see anything there that says he want's back, but I suppose there might be additional knowledge which you have that I don't! :-)

Aye I'm glad I sought extra opinions. I thought there may be no malice per se, maybe some hints, but S's rage on top of my own anger fed on each other - glad I sought outside soruces before we reacted

Well yea, he frequently will say things like "when I was GM..." or "This should happen - but of course I'M not GM..." lots of niggly little hints, this was after some pretty bad dramas that I'll go into at length in another post (great length)

I can't get past the mangled first sentence to form an impression of the whole, sorry :)

This - can anyone offer a translation?

I second that. I'm having a hard time getting what he's talking about here.

"The guild is now ranked eighth in our server's progression, and that's better than I ever expected when I put it together. We're ranked 4942 out of all the guilds on all of the EU servers, which is enough to get us into the 'top 5000' section on wowjutsu.com's ranking site - and they haven't even updated to cover the most recent data yet."

Hope that helps.

http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/ is what he's talking about. WowJutsu offers ladders showing guild ranks in comparison to other guilds through raids. Who has cleared what instance, and all that. Basically, it's 100% WoW talk.

Means that Sparky's guild is in 8th place for their server Alliance side and in 4942nd place overall for the European servers.

If that makes sense? I hope so. I'm used to it. *toddles off to check own guilds' rankings*

Translation offered in edit :)

It's sort of condescending. It's pretty normal for the founder of a group/business/church/whatever to get like that after they step down. Smile, say "thanks" and keep going. Don't make him GM again. If he asks, say "Thanks, we've got it under control, but we'll put you on the list of people who have offered to help if we need help."

Aye, that's what got us - it was paternalistic and condescening and it got our backs up, made us feel like caretakers. Or like teenagers looking after the house while your parents are on holiday and dad's back and is surprised you haven't trashed the place

He'll take GM from our cold, dead hands :P

Sounds reasonably sincere to me, but I don't know all the drama. No mention of "Gosh, you could have done so much better under me."

I dunno :) He sounds pleased, I'd leave it at that. :)

Good for you, btw. :) Running a guild is hard work, I could never do that :P

It was more condescending than overt.

We have had a lot of niggly hints in the past, and previous dramas have made us... sensitive. It's one of the reasons I've asked for second opinions because we ARE sensitive

Thankee :) it's like another full time job sometimes, but I love mah guild

I can see where it might come across as a bit condescending from where you're sitting, but my gut instinct is that it wasn't intended as such. My guess is that he still thinks of the guild as his "baby" and feels a sort of parental pride about what you guys have accomplished, even if it was no thanks to him. Take it at face value unless he starts trying for the power plays in the guild. Then put him in his place.

This.

it seems sincere to me? at least there's nothing you can justifiably call him on. take the high road, just say thanks--because you guys did, in fact, kick much butt--and move on.

I think it's sincere - but I also suspect a motive in reminding us of who he was etc and there are elements of condescension. BUT we're also majorly sensitive to what he says which means I don't trust mine or S' judgement in this (luckily I have a journal with awesome people on it to provide reality checks

And, as you said, we couldn't exactly confront him on a general impression of tone :)

We shall continue kicking butt - which we do most mightily - and regard him with... friendly caution

Aye, I think his intentions may have been good (niggly comments elsehwere and past history have made us wary and distrustful of him). It was the condescension that got us

Aye, we've already agreed that a leadership role is not coming his way. Really, no

Overall it doesn't sound snarky, pointing out rank placements might be a bit much though. Seems to me he's taking a bit of credit where it's not due at all, but at the same time, just seems he's proud of the guild he initially formed. It's tricky, and I can totally see where you're coming from. Tis one of the reasons I will never, ever, under any circumstances lead a guild ever again. To. Much. Drama.

8th!? Holy shit! Grats!

We just had an impression of it being rather condescending and, well, paternal. Kind of like addressing caretakers which we didn't like much. BUT we are sensitive too what he says after the coup dramas

Oh drama, the bane of our lives. It keeps things interesting though. I am amazed by the number of special snowflakes out there though

Thanks :) Though it's 4th because of deleted guilds (deleted MONTHS ago). Our server isn't massively raid progressive but we're still kind of glowy about that :)

At face value it seems like a sincere compliment to me. Maybe if I was in your position and he had a habit of being snide or snippy with me, I'd think differently.

I'll agree that he sounds a tad full of himself - as if he personally taught you everything you know and graciously handed down his leadership instead of you guys claiming it after he did fuck-all - but I don't think he's being funny with you. Just dense!

He has a habit of, well, expecting respect/authority he hasn't earned. He's been inactive for a year now and in many ways acts like he's still a (if not THE) primary mover and shaker in the guild - even trying to veto things or enforce new policies.. It grates it does.

But the grating has caused us to be a bit hypersensitive to his actions :) And I DO think he still kind of regards our taking over as a usurption which also galls. And the paternalistic attitude! Gah, the man couldn't even lead Gruul anymore! Everything we've achieved has been in his utter absence but gah.., yes, we're sensitive - but it's just this feeling that he's trying to claim credit for all this, or that he had a part in our success and he wasn't there! (see? I'm still miffed :) This is why I didn't trust my own judgement).

Very very dense iundeed

I don't know this person well enough to assume if he meant it to be a compliment or something more snarky. If he wants to be a GM he can ask. You all have done a lot of work and should be proud. Nice ranksing.

Thank you :)

I think he knows better than to outright ask. From a lot of comments where he is leaving niggly little hints, I think he's going to come back with the expansion and kind of try to GUILT us into giving him authority again

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Now for some drama and a look for second opinions

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