sparkindarkness (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sparkindarkness) wrote2008-08-15 05:57 pm
sparkindarkness) wrote2008-08-15 05:57 pm
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More Geeky Rpgness: Whitewolf? We have to talk.
Your game setting is wonderful. IO have spent an insane amount of geeky hours in the World of Darkness and loved every minute. Your books fill innumerable shelves and threaten to take over.
But your campaigns SUCK sweaty monkey balls.
Normally I don’t do pre-set campaigns, but I wanted to try one with the new Werewolf game to a) give me time to get a feel for it and b) give me time to write something for myself.
But these? These are unworkable
I’m keeping this vague but here’s a cuty thing in case you fear spoilers
Let’s look at some of the many problems of these campaigns.
1) Verbose. Seriously, the players expect to hear from the nps at length but there’s a limit. Seriously, there’s a campaign here where an NPC has a FOUR PAGE MONOLOGUE. A4 pages. Small print. You expect me to sit there and read this out to the players and them not to be bored rigid? It’s not exactly Shakespeare.
2) It’s still verbose if you have 3 npcs having a 4-5 page conversation. The players are still sat there listening to me ramble and have no opportunity to participate in any way. They’re here to play, not to have me fill in the role of books-on-tape.
3) The whole plot resting on one damn roll! Seriously there’s a part here where to continue the players have to make a successful perception + security check, difficulty 8 to find the secret door. Putting aside for the moment that there’s absolutely NO reason why they should be LOOKING for a secret door, let’s just look at the silliness of this. The players are supposed to find the door, charge the bad guy and see the conclusion of the evil ritual and have the whole plot revealed and a new bad guy established. Excepppt... none of them has security. Or they have low perception. Or they just roll bad. Or they botch. Or how about they just protest because I’m asking them to roll to look for a secret door when none of them have asked to look for one - not very secret is it? But anyway, they fail... and what? Go home? Call it a night? Oops, bad guy completes ritual unobserved ain’t that a shame? Seriously, that fails.
4) Gloss over. You drop in stuff all the time that is irrelevant to the real plot but very much would be of interest to the players. This isn’t a computer game. Items of interest don’t glow so the players know what to pay attention to. If I mention it, they may look at it. ESPECIALLY when a description says “the bedroom is messy, clothing and bedcovers lay scattered around the many old yellow tomes.“ From this the players are assumed to conclude there is nothing of interest here and move on. Errrr, except, y’know, the old books? You think they’re not going to question and look at them? What am I supposed to say? “Yes this guy collects first edition Dickens novels”? I mean I know the guy is a ritualist so I assume they’re supposed to be books on occult. You’re saying my Tremere/Theurge/Uktena/Mage/whatever isn’t going to study them? But noooo, you just drop a fascinating item in the way and expect the players to ignore them.
5) Ridiculous Railroading. I REFUSE to describe any npc as “suspicious.” It’s ridiculous. Don’t tell me by the 3rd chapter the players should be very suspicious about the suspicious character of suspiciousness. Because it’s stupid - this BIT CHARACTER has done NOTHING in the first 2 chapters and the ONLY reason he can be considered suspicious is because every time he is mentioned I’m expected to use “suspicious” as a descriptor. Apart from anything else the guy is supposed to be an undercover infiltrator. If he can be pegged as “suspicious” by someone brand new to the situation after a 5 second meeting then he SUCKS at the infiltrating.
6) Expectation of absurd decisions. Some of these MUST involve me cheating. To make the players act the way the story requires them to I MUST reveal later parts of the plot because there’s no way they would realistically do what is expected. Example:
Chapter summary says the Werewolf players must make an alliance with a Black Spiral Dancer pack! (This is like someone asking you to overlook and help some paedophiles who just dropped in. Or asking your local Synagogue to host a Neo-nazi party). I’m a little surprised but expect the chronicle to reveal some incredible, unimaginable threat that forces this upon them to do something so horrendous. And reading through I find such a threat... AFTER the alliance is forged. There is NO such threat or indication of threat before the scene where both sides pledge peace and co-operation. The players just randomly decide that asking the local Black Spirals for help is a GREAT idea - even though they don’t need help and even though there’s a sept of 40+ GAIAN werewolves less than a day’s travel away.
What are my players going to do in this situation when 3 BSDs approach them for an alliance (note, a day AFTER attacking the player’s home and killing 2 of their friends) why, they’re going to attack and kill them. Story derailed because players are being SENSIBLE, roleplaying and NOT breaking a vital werewolf law.
Oh and after the sept learns they just betrayed everything they believe in and consorted with the enemy? They’re told “tut tut that was silly.” *boggles*
Honestly I could go on forever. There’s endless references to the characters seeking out and talking to various people, going to various places and investigating various “leads” and there’s NO REASON why they would. Seriously, the only way that the characters would do some of the things described if it were like one of those rpg/story games (e.g. Broken Sword, Discworld etc) and you’d got stuck so you just click on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING in a vague attempt to advance the story. I don’t want my players randomly running around saying “hey. let’s ask the cleaning lady where the Sabbat pack is hiding. We haven’t asked her yet!”
In the end I think the common problem with all these scenarios is it assumes there’s ONE player. The GM. Because the characters have to have GM knowledge and be completely under the GM control to follow the convoluted paths. Great as stories, maybe, but crap as pre-set campaigns
But your campaigns SUCK sweaty monkey balls.
Normally I don’t do pre-set campaigns, but I wanted to try one with the new Werewolf game to a) give me time to get a feel for it and b) give me time to write something for myself.
But these? These are unworkable
I’m keeping this vague but here’s a cuty thing in case you fear spoilers
Let’s look at some of the many problems of these campaigns.
1) Verbose. Seriously, the players expect to hear from the nps at length but there’s a limit. Seriously, there’s a campaign here where an NPC has a FOUR PAGE MONOLOGUE. A4 pages. Small print. You expect me to sit there and read this out to the players and them not to be bored rigid? It’s not exactly Shakespeare.
2) It’s still verbose if you have 3 npcs having a 4-5 page conversation. The players are still sat there listening to me ramble and have no opportunity to participate in any way. They’re here to play, not to have me fill in the role of books-on-tape.
3) The whole plot resting on one damn roll! Seriously there’s a part here where to continue the players have to make a successful perception + security check, difficulty 8 to find the secret door. Putting aside for the moment that there’s absolutely NO reason why they should be LOOKING for a secret door, let’s just look at the silliness of this. The players are supposed to find the door, charge the bad guy and see the conclusion of the evil ritual and have the whole plot revealed and a new bad guy established. Excepppt... none of them has security. Or they have low perception. Or they just roll bad. Or they botch. Or how about they just protest because I’m asking them to roll to look for a secret door when none of them have asked to look for one - not very secret is it? But anyway, they fail... and what? Go home? Call it a night? Oops, bad guy completes ritual unobserved ain’t that a shame? Seriously, that fails.
4) Gloss over. You drop in stuff all the time that is irrelevant to the real plot but very much would be of interest to the players. This isn’t a computer game. Items of interest don’t glow so the players know what to pay attention to. If I mention it, they may look at it. ESPECIALLY when a description says “the bedroom is messy, clothing and bedcovers lay scattered around the many old yellow tomes.“ From this the players are assumed to conclude there is nothing of interest here and move on. Errrr, except, y’know, the old books? You think they’re not going to question and look at them? What am I supposed to say? “Yes this guy collects first edition Dickens novels”? I mean I know the guy is a ritualist so I assume they’re supposed to be books on occult. You’re saying my Tremere/Theurge/Uktena/Mage/whatever isn’t going to study them? But noooo, you just drop a fascinating item in the way and expect the players to ignore them.
5) Ridiculous Railroading. I REFUSE to describe any npc as “suspicious.” It’s ridiculous. Don’t tell me by the 3rd chapter the players should be very suspicious about the suspicious character of suspiciousness. Because it’s stupid - this BIT CHARACTER has done NOTHING in the first 2 chapters and the ONLY reason he can be considered suspicious is because every time he is mentioned I’m expected to use “suspicious” as a descriptor. Apart from anything else the guy is supposed to be an undercover infiltrator. If he can be pegged as “suspicious” by someone brand new to the situation after a 5 second meeting then he SUCKS at the infiltrating.
6) Expectation of absurd decisions. Some of these MUST involve me cheating. To make the players act the way the story requires them to I MUST reveal later parts of the plot because there’s no way they would realistically do what is expected. Example:
Chapter summary says the Werewolf players must make an alliance with a Black Spiral Dancer pack! (This is like someone asking you to overlook and help some paedophiles who just dropped in. Or asking your local Synagogue to host a Neo-nazi party). I’m a little surprised but expect the chronicle to reveal some incredible, unimaginable threat that forces this upon them to do something so horrendous. And reading through I find such a threat... AFTER the alliance is forged. There is NO such threat or indication of threat before the scene where both sides pledge peace and co-operation. The players just randomly decide that asking the local Black Spirals for help is a GREAT idea - even though they don’t need help and even though there’s a sept of 40+ GAIAN werewolves less than a day’s travel away.
What are my players going to do in this situation when 3 BSDs approach them for an alliance (note, a day AFTER attacking the player’s home and killing 2 of their friends) why, they’re going to attack and kill them. Story derailed because players are being SENSIBLE, roleplaying and NOT breaking a vital werewolf law.
Oh and after the sept learns they just betrayed everything they believe in and consorted with the enemy? They’re told “tut tut that was silly.” *boggles*
Honestly I could go on forever. There’s endless references to the characters seeking out and talking to various people, going to various places and investigating various “leads” and there’s NO REASON why they would. Seriously, the only way that the characters would do some of the things described if it were like one of those rpg/story games (e.g. Broken Sword, Discworld etc) and you’d got stuck so you just click on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING in a vague attempt to advance the story. I don’t want my players randomly running around saying “hey. let’s ask the cleaning lady where the Sabbat pack is hiding. We haven’t asked her yet!”
In the end I think the common problem with all these scenarios is it assumes there’s ONE player. The GM. Because the characters have to have GM knowledge and be completely under the GM control to follow the convoluted paths. Great as stories, maybe, but crap as pre-set campaigns